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Thread: A Possible Reason Why Some Regain?

  1. #1
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    A Possible Reason Why Some Regain?

    I've been reading quite a lot the last year or so about how going too low in carbs too abruptly can trigger thyroid problems. I've been wondering if that might be the problem for the few that we see who are gaining. They often report to me, "But I'm not eating anything but meat." And that is maybe the problem. I'm going to start advising that people don't cut their carbs too low in P3. We have adequate carbs in P2, 2 fruits a day. But some don't eat any fruit at all in P3 and I think that just might be a problem.

    Here is one article that explains it: http://drcate.com/going-low-carb-too...one-imbalance/
    My expert Hcg Diet advice is based specifically on the original Simeons Protocol and over 10 years experience as a weight loss and nutrition coach. Grammy's personal protocol:Grammy's Hcg Diet Protocol
    Grammy's author website: ColleenCoble.com

    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

  2. #2
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    THANK YOU for this post! I have been researching "metabolic typing" diets and the effects of glycogenic vs. gluconeogenic metabolism over the past couple of years due to some issues I have had, particularly in relation to low carb diets and exercising while dieting. A few studies and articles have danced around the "whys" of this phenomenon, but none have explained so completely and succinctly.

    This specifically answers some concerns I posted a few weeks ago, which no one seemed to understand. I have been severe Hashimoto's since age 20, and am on both t3 and t4 replacement, partially to counteract reverse t3. Prior to starting hcg I would say that I had achieved fairly optimal wellness in every area EXCEPT for weight, having gotten my Hashi's to a well-managed condition and having pretty much cured my FMS and CFS through an organic whole foods diet. Over the past year I was following Nourishing Traditions, and feeling very, very good. I had a relatively low carb diet by American standards (probably about 40-45%) but a fairly high carb diet compared to most Paleo or HCG users. I tried Atkins way back and Paleo a couple of years ago, and both were horrible, horrible experiments.

    As for my P3, I was on a steady downward decline since day 1. Everything in this article fits to a T, I had no energy, headaches, dizziness,bloating, indigestion, and when I needed to do exertion my body would just collapse (hello, inability to efficiently convert glucose to energy). My doctor was also surprised last week (2 weeks into P3) that my heart rate was very low, while my cholesterol was elevated. When I had a little weight "hiccup" midway through (without cheating), every correction strategy involved going LOWER carb, which made me feel even worse. Then my "steak day" ended up in a disaster, with me binging on starchy carbs at the end of the day because I turned into a ravenous wild animal from fasting when my energy was already down. Except it wasn't that much of a disaster because I lost a lot of weight the next day. And I felt a MILLION times better. That was my only cheat in the entire 7 weeks, since then I've been incorporating many more healthy carbs every day and seeing great, stable results. I'm officially out of P3!

    The only thing I am not sure about (and the author doesn't seem 100% sure either), is whether the same level of target low carbs is even possible or desirable for people of this metabolic makeup. The proponents of metabolic typing (there are 3 or 4 well-known ones, including Dr. Mercola and Jillian Michaels) seem to think that about 15% of people are "carb types", which means that they NEED some carbs, sugars and starches (healthy ones of course) to optimally function because of their slow-oxidizing metabolisms. Depending on only gluconeogenesis puts carb types into shock because blood glucose drops way too low. The description in the article of symptoms of people with elevated reverse T3 bears some similarity to a typical "carb" type. Incidentally, most people (at least 60%) are supposedly "protein types" who function best on a low to very low carbohydrate diet.

    I have at least 2 more rounds of hcg (which has been a God-send and worked so great on me) and the aftermath to go through, so I'm trying to figure all this out. This article was SO helpful to putting me on that path. I think I'm going to up my Cytomel dose next time as a precaution. So far the most helpful things in addition to the weight loss was the realization that no sugar no starch in P3 does NOT necessarily have to mean low carb, and the "hunger scale" because my hunger patterns seem to be quite different than what I am conditioned to think are the "right" times to eat.

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  3. #3
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    I had fibro myself once upon a time and cured it with Cytomel. I too have Hashi's and am on a T3/T4 compounded replacement. I've been on the forum four years and at my goal weight for 2. though I wouldn't mind losing a bit more, but that is always a battle of the mind. LOL Anyway, I've been seeing this phenomenon on occasion and have been unable to figure out what to do to help. I think the key is to make sure people don't go so strict in P3 that they are eating virtually no carbs. Dr. Simeons permitted fruit if it wasn't too sweet but we see people not eat any at all. I now think that is probably a mistake. The tighter we go, the worse the thyroid gets. And the gains often start in P4 even if the person is not eating anything different than they did in P3. I think too few carbs may just be dampening the thyroid lower and lower until the weight gain starts.

    This is all hypothesis but I've been searching for an answer to the occasional problems I see. I'm not a huge fan of the hunger scale though. I think some people can not recognize when they need to eat and then eat so few calories that it messes up the metabolism again.
    My expert Hcg Diet advice is based specifically on the original Simeons Protocol and over 10 years experience as a weight loss and nutrition coach. Grammy's personal protocol:Grammy's Hcg Diet Protocol
    Grammy's author website: ColleenCoble.com

    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

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    Senior Member azpearl's Avatar
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    Thank you for post this Grammy!

    During my R1/P3 I was actually nervous about eating fruit even though Dr. Simeon's protocol allowed for it. I felt good during P3 but something instinctively told me that I needed to be eating more fruit. Towards the end I added it back in and I stabilized just fine.

    Also, thanks for taking such good care of us...many blessings to you!
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  5. #5
    Grammy - thank you - I agree with you even if its just a theory. I don't want to post anything that is against protocol. But I am in P3D21 - and I did add a little more carbs than recommended - not white starch, but- PB, fruit - I have stabilized perfectly (9 days the exact same weight) and the rest of the time under by a lb. anyway I splurged a little this weekend (bday cake and ice cream) - no gain - and I think that cutting something out so completely could almost create a resistance to it. I have had thyroid issues but not permanent - T3 and T4 were off but a year later symptoms went away and levels were normal - except the weight wouldn't come off.

    Thank goodness for hcg - I finally have my metabolism back !!!! And I'm glad I added a few more carbs - I think it will help me in the long run. It's scary to gain pounds overnight just from eating a piece of cake!!!

  6. #6
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    Some can eat PB okay. I don't recommend it in P3 because it is a legume but glad you're okay with it. But I would NOT recommend bday cake and ice cream in P3 but you're basically in P4 since you are at day 21.
    My expert Hcg Diet advice is based specifically on the original Simeons Protocol and over 10 years experience as a weight loss and nutrition coach. Grammy's personal protocol:Grammy's Hcg Diet Protocol
    Grammy's author website: ColleenCoble.com

    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

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    I wonder if this could be my problem?? I have had a terrible P3 stage. I've had 4 steak days already. Didn't do ONE because I woke up absolutely starving! But I couldn't get the weight back down. Several days afterwards I did a steak day, dropped several pounds back into the safe zone then the NEXT day popped back up. I have removed all nuts, and gained the next day. I tried cutting out dairy and gained the next day. I had lots of dairy and lost a half pound. But now I'm back to the same issue. I should have done a steak day yesterday and woke up ready to eat a horse. So I ate carefully and was up today. Arrrgh. Now I'm several pounds above and don't know how to get back down. I'm going to do a steak day again today. But....I'm on day 18 of P3.

  8. #8
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    Too many steak days can have a negative effect too. They can eventually lower your metabolism. You can't cut out dairy one day and expect it to do anything. If you have inflammation going on, it takes several days for it to subside. Try cutting it for at least 5 days.
    My expert Hcg Diet advice is based specifically on the original Simeons Protocol and over 10 years experience as a weight loss and nutrition coach. Grammy's personal protocol:Grammy's Hcg Diet Protocol
    Grammy's author website: ColleenCoble.com

    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

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    Thanks for responding!

    Do you think then I shouldn't do a steak day?? I hate them in a way because I'm always so hungry. I could go for five days with careful eating and no dairy and see if the weight drops. I just feel like I'm guessing and instead of getting on track, I'm getting further off track! What about the apple day? Can one replace the stead day in P3 with an apple day?

  10. #10
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    An apple day is not for P3. It's only p2 and even then is pretty useless. Unless it's been at least 5 days since your last steak day, I wouldn't do one. I'd do protein and fats every 2-3 hours and see how that does. No dairy though!
    My expert Hcg Diet advice is based specifically on the original Simeons Protocol and over 10 years experience as a weight loss and nutrition coach. Grammy's personal protocol:Grammy's Hcg Diet Protocol
    Grammy's author website: ColleenCoble.com

    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

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    Thanks! I can try the protein and fat thing. Hadn't heard of that one before. I'll stick to eggs/meat/fish and butter/homemade mayo for today and see if that shifts the weight. I presume this is just for one day? Then add vegetables back in tomorrow?

    I'm 4 pounds over my ending P2 weight. If I did a steak day I could expect (maybe?) to go back 2 pounds and put me just under the line of needing a steak day again. It's been a terrible bounce. Every time 1 day after a steak day I gain .2 or .4 and then the next day I gain the 2 plus pounds back that I lost on the steak day.

    I just checked. Today would be day 5 since the last steak day.

  12. #12
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    Yes that's what I would try.
    My expert Hcg Diet advice is based specifically on the original Simeons Protocol and over 10 years experience as a weight loss and nutrition coach. Grammy's personal protocol:Grammy's Hcg Diet Protocol
    Grammy's author website: ColleenCoble.com

    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

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