The Stabilization of MissM

Mi ss M, thanks for your posting. No need for embarrassment at all. I'm with you on a lot of this. I am sure I go past the satiety level a lot of times. If I drink my protein shake and were to stop when satieted, I'd prob only drink half of it. But I always continue to drink until it is finished. I try to listen to hunger cues, but if I waited sometimes until I was really hungry, I might skip meals, and then not have eaten enough calories for the day. kwim?I don't know if all this is going to affect how I stabilize over long haul or not. Right now it seems to be going well (P3, Day 10 and .6 below last dose weight this a.m.) but I know I'm not always eating just to satisfied, not full instructions, and I still eat my meals at pretty set times of day. Those habits are almost impossible to break. There are times when I know I will be out a lot during day, so I will eat before I go, just to guarantee I don't get hungry and eat something out that I shouldn't. That is so against things I have read lately. I try to do as instructed, but I fail a lot on those issues. I will say I will delay eating sometimes when I am home until I am hungry, but I never want to get too hungry. Such a process, and habits are so difficult to break.

Enjoy your weekend with BF, and spring break! Happy spring to you too!

MissM, I so relate to your post today. Oh to be able to stop eating when satiety begins to hit. I get so frustrated at my lack of control, and to your point, when I control for a longer period of time, the uncontrollable urge to have an all out blow out eating binge. I’m working hard right now during P2 to chew very slowly and be mindful so that I can hopefully carry this habit over to P3 and beyond.

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Originally Posted by DivineMissM

Anyway, what else happened with this meal is I ate to fullness, past satisfaction. And I enjoyed it. I know, I know, I keep saying this is my main work, to learn to not overeat and discover true satiety signals and respond . . . and that's still true. However, I can't help but wonder if giving myself a planned, compliant meal from time to time to let loose in that way won't help me practice restraint and reverence with food the majority of the time? This is coming, in part, from the very interesting convo with mrsstrong about that desire to be free with food. I know there's some research about restraint, that humans have a tendency to only be able to exercise it for so long and in so many areas before the release valve is needed. What if we planned for it rather than let it happen wily nily? Maybe for some personalities that could work best.

I don't know. As I said, this is still an experiment for me. But just as a planned "cheat" meal or day or whatever once or twice a month in P4/life post-HCG may create the conditions in which the low-carb/keto/lifestyle of choice can work the rest of the time, maybe a compliant low-carb meal of choice in which I give myself permission to eat to fullness rather than satiety once a week, might help me practice restraint the rest of the time.

It's a question of approach. Must I transform everything at once? Or might I work with a less-than-healthy tendency of mine to want to overeat, to want to enjoy that feeling of eating with abandon past the point of satiety, to fullness, and allow for it once in a while with the intention of limiting it to a single, albeit repeated, occasion? I'm not sure. I have mixed feelings about it, and I'm going to observe myself today and in the next week to see if allowing for it makes me want to do it more often or if allowing for it gives me greater powers to return to the commitment to eating only to satiety.

By the way, this is totally embarrassing to me, and I don't know that I could talk about it to people IRL, so I'm extra grateful right now for this forum and this particular disembodied screen communication (to renege on what I led this post with!). Such complex creatures we can be. . . .

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My plan is to treat eating to stuffedness the same as a treat, and it would potentially be on the same day since I am going to more or less plan my treats around some celebration (and if there isn't one, I'll create one LOL). Basically, a day where I can do what I want. Maybe once a month or 6 weeks.

What makes it embarrassing could be an interesting question for yourself to look into.

Happy Saturday!

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Originally Posted by mrsstrong

My plan is to treat eating to stuffedness the same as a treat, and it would potentially be on the same day since I am going to more or less plan my treats around some celebration (and if there isn't one, I'll create one LOL). Basically, a day where I can do what I want. Maybe once a month or 6 weeks.

What makes it embarrassing could be an interesting question for yourself to look into.

Happy Saturday!

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I like your approach, m'lady! Something I wrote in a journal I revisited lately is that I can make every single occasion a celebration even without trying. It's part of my nature. A real blessing and a curse!

And as soon as I wrote it I began ruminating a bit on why I feel shame around my appetite and behavior around food. There are very clear answers, many of which I've been working through for many years, and the saga continues. But it's so helpful to be honest about it--and to receive feedback from many of you on the forum. I am not alone in this, despite how often I can get trapped in my mind thinking that I am.

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Originally Posted by justgitterdone

MissM, I so relate to your post today. Oh to be able to stop eating when satiety begins to hit. I get so frustrated at my lack of control, and to your point, when I control for a longer period of time, the uncontrollable urge to have an all out blow out eating binge. I’m working hard right now during P2 to chew very slowly and be mindful so that I can hopefully carry this habit over to P3 and beyond.

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Thank you for this, friend. What's helping me is to stay in curious observation mode as long as possible rather than slipping into the default of frustration and disappointment with myself. And I so appreciate your acknowledgment about how forcing control for too long can lead to a binge. That's exactly what I'm interested in heading off with this planned indulgence model.

Good for you for working on mindfulness and chewing slowing during P2. It's a wonderful time to practice and develop new patterns. I'm doing my best to carry some of them into my P3. We can do this!!

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Originally Posted by Dubbles

Mi ss M, thanks for your posting. No need for embarrassment at all. I'm with you on a lot of this. I am sure I go past the satiety level a lot of times. If I drink my protein shake and were to stop when satieted, I'd prob only drink half of it. But I always continue to drink until it is finished. I try to listen to hunger cues, but if I waited sometimes until I was really hungry, I might skip meals, and then not have eaten enough calories for the day. kwim?I don't know if all this is going to affect how I stabilize over long haul or not. Right now it seems to be going well (P3, Day 10 and .6 below last dose weight this a.m.) but I know I'm not always eating just to satisfied, not full instructions, and I still eat my meals at pretty set times of day. Those habits are almost impossible to break. There are times when I know I will be out a lot during day, so I will eat before I go, just to guarantee I don't get hungry and eat something out that I shouldn't. That is so against things I have read lately. I try to do as instructed, but I fail a lot on those issues. I will say I will delay eating sometimes when I am home until I am hungry, but I never want to get too hungry. Such a process, and habits are so difficult to break.

Enjoy your weekend with BF, and spring break! Happy spring to you too!

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Thanks so much for sharing your experience, Dubbles. And my goodness you're rocking this P3, Lady--SO HAPPY for you!!!

You bring up some really practical points that are so helpful to remember. Sometimes it is good policy to eat something before going out to head off getting over hungry in an inappropriate time and place. That's intelligent planning ahead that's akin to self care if you ask me. This is such an involved process, isn't it? Finding our best way forward in varying contexts, honoring our hunger and our bodies and our whole selves while being mindful not to cause harm. Sometimes overthinking is a thing and it's just fine to carry on with what works. Your response today reminds me of that, and I needed it. So, thank you!! XO

Thanks Miss M, we all enjoy your posts so much, very happy if any of my musings are helpful to you or anyone. We work at it!

Happy Sunday, all! I'm multitasking at the moment so that I can get out the door for my trip to see BF. But wanted to check in and say all is well. It seems my experiment in overeating Friday night hasn't led to a runaway train. In fact, I ate less yesterday than usual and felt totally satisfied. I'd like to think that maybe my appetite is normalizing, that my body is able to shift and change without fanfare. As it's meant to.

Another thing worth reporting: I've done some thinking about my aversion to the scale, and I'm trying out a new solution. I just ordered a new scale that measures all kinds of things in addition to body weight. I'm thinking that maybe seeing shifts in body fat, water, etc. might make that number a little more useful and less fretful. We shall see.

I hope everyone is enjoying a day of rest!

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Originally Posted by DivineMissM

Happy Sunday, all! I'm multitasking at the moment so that I can get out the door for my trip to see BF. But wanted to check in and say all is well. It seems my experiment in overeating Friday night hasn't led to a runaway train. In fact, I ate less yesterday than usual and felt totally satisfied. I'd like to think that maybe my appetite is normalizing, that my body is able to shift and change without fanfare. As it's meant to.

Another thing worth reporting: I've done some thinking about my aversion to the scale, and I'm trying out a new solution. I just ordered a new scale that measures all kinds of things in addition to body weight. I'm thinking that maybe seeing shifts in body fat, water, etc. might make that number a little more useful and less fretful. We shall see.

I hope everyone is enjoying a day of rest!

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Enjoy the weekend Miss M. The scale you ordered sounds interesting....let us know, later. Have fun!

MissM...
It baffles me how these scales can measure body fat, water/hydration and all sorts .... I bet you are going to have so much fun when TOM comes with the new scale.... will be interesting to see if it picks up the water retention?

I did reply to your post over the weekend and then lost it all.... I think with your mindset you will not allow yourself to lapse.... You are committed... and you are doing great!

Dubbles.... When I know I have a lot of errands to run, I always make sure I have a little cooler box with snacks I am allowed to have, extra water and basically not allowing me to buy pre made stuff that could contain hidden carbs and sugars.... try it

Back from my mini break with BF, and it was just what I needed--definitely good medicine to have some QT together. I'm not entirely proud of the way I ate, though it could have been worse and I'm right back on the horse today. It really was just yesterday, we skipped a meal and ended up grocery shopping hungry and buying snacks. Tasted a few potato chips and nibbled on some meats that most certainly had some yuckies like wheat flour and sugar if not msg. Oh well. Overall the carb count stayed pretty low. And I deliberately enjoyed a glass of wine with a steak dinner at one of our favorite joints we hadn't frequented in a dog's age. It was such a treat to have a proper date night and to savor a single glass of good pinot noir. It was absolutely worth it, even though I'm still in P3 and it wasn't technically compliant.

Haven't received my scale yet and am just assuming my weight is up after all the weird-to-me stuff I ate, so I'm doing a steak day today. It's a nice way for me to get back on track anyway--and I kind of enjoy it, as I've said before.

I did note repeated patterns with BF: we got tons of exercise together, and I did pretty well resisting his food pushing for a while, but then I eventually gave in--but not to the extent I usually do. There's more for us to unearth and get through with this. I am adamant that I will not regain this weight, and I think part of him is quite threatened by my weight loss. He's about 70 pounds overweight and has been a yo-yo dieter for most of his adult life. With his mid-life health conditions, he'd do well to find a way of eating that's consistently healthy, and I do my best to encourage my paleo/ketoish ways, especially leading by example, but I don't want to push or become responsible for all of our dining. I'm already halfway there as it is, it seems.

And it hit me extra hard how it feels to me that in order to eat healthy and take care of myself it's almost impossible to not come off as eating disordered to folks happily living with a Standard American Diet. It even made me question if I AM eating disordered. Food obsessed but in a different way. And is it possible to live in this eating-disordered culture (as Michael Pollan describes the US's approach to food and eating in The Omnivore's Dilemma) one way or another without being eating disordered?

I caught myself mentioning to BF that I've come to understand my grandmother's aversion to eating while alone and yet her huge appetite and ability to eat when she was in good company, which was rare--mostly kept to holidays. She always ate very well, but I know she practically starved herself the rest of the time. We all described her as anorexic and she had lost a pile of weight after her husband died when she was in her 40s. She most certainly was food and body obsessed and made no bones about criticizing any of the family she deemed overweight or overeating and praised anyone who got thin--though also criticized them for not eating treats. But it dawned on me that I'm not entirely unlike her, at least in terms of how she seemed to eat. I know I describe my food here and it makes Yvonne sick to read because it sounds like so much, but the fact is I'm not actually eating very much anymore. And when I'm with BF, it's like all I want to do is eat because it's so pleasurable to dine with someone I love. Seriously, it's like I was a ravenous, bottomless pit over the past couple of days. And I can outeat him threefold when we're together. Though according to Weight Loss Apocalypse, there's some science behind that phenomena regarding leptin and ghrelin and how fatter people actually get full faster and thinner people tend to be able to eat more.

Anyway, just some peculiar observations. I'm still in the midst of figuring things out, and it's so helpful for me to write them down here. I really am so committed to finding a middle way for myself, and it scared me how remorseful I felt after nibbling on a handful of potato chips--like I'd ruined everything. I so very much long to get to a place of normality with food and my body, but it's almost like I can't even comprehend right now what that looks like while also being healthy. Have I strayed into the realm of orthorexia? Good lord, I hope not.

And I hope everyone else is continuing to make their own ways, as happily and with as much pleasure as possible. Happy Tuesday, all!

As usual loved your observations.....I feel like a broken record. We're going out of town to see grandkids this weekend, and I know I will not be entirely p3 compliant. I haven't even mentioned losing any weight, or being on hcg to my daughter. She really doesn't understand--she is one of those size 6 people, after having 5 boys! She is balanced with her eating, works out regularly but not manically. She will eat until full and stop, save for the next day-loves donuts and pizza with her kids, but eats with so much balance and control. I feel it is just genetically how she is, buy she didn't get that from me. I know while there cake will be available, cookies--I'm taking those treats for my grandkids! They expect that from Nana. The cookies I can make and resist--its the cake, or going to get coffee and donuts, driving around looking at landscaping as we drink our coffee, have our donuts, catching up. I just know I am going to participate, these are memories we make. And while it isn't p3 compliant, I WANT to participate. My problem is not letting it be a runaway train! I need another short round, and finding time where I won't be going out with people is going to be difficult if not impossible. Especially now that spring and summer are coming, and people and friends are getting out and about more. I'm worried about eating something I think I shouldn't and then saying, well, now that I've blown it--may as well "load" , for lack of a better word. And like you, Miss M, I can eat a lot--really I feel like I can eat
more than my husband sometimes. I feel like I, too, am committed to finding a middle ground, but I am very nervous and anxious about how to go about doing that. I found a few pairs of jeans from when I had lost weight in the past on hcg and tried them on, they feel and look really nice. It's so satisfying to be able to pull on your clothes and not have to worry if you like fat, if they'll fit, and I don't want to go back there, but while now I'm not embarrassed to be seen after Covoid gain, getting out there again, socializing again--that is scary.