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Thread: The Stabilization of MissM

  1. #13
    Super Member! Dubbles's Avatar
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    Yes, no sugars and no starches. Key!

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    Super Member! FlirtyFlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonblack View Post
    That means P3 will begin Sunday for me
    We are going to have a really nice strong P3 group this time around.....great to be able to add you too Wilson
    ~AKA Yvonne SA~
    Greetings from Sunny South Africa!
    Round 3 - Loading 16 Apr '21 - start weight 76.4/168.1
    Round 2 - Jan-Mar '21 - lost 5kgs/11lbs
    Round 1 - Sept-Nov '20 - lost 10kgs/22lbs

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    Super Member! FlirtyFlo's Avatar
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    MissM... I so agree, the expression 'get your mind out of the gutter' comes to mind!!!

    move away from this diet or that regime.... we have to train our brains to think away from what has become second nature re fasting and dieting etc,.... that being said, I am very comfortable with a keto plan, not because I want to be in ketosis, but because I know starch is my enemy.... so my new normal going forward would be to do a kind of Keto regime Monday to Friday and allowing myself leeway over weekends

    P is about rethinking your new normal going forward
    ~AKA Yvonne SA~
    Greetings from Sunny South Africa!
    Round 3 - Loading 16 Apr '21 - start weight 76.4/168.1
    Round 2 - Jan-Mar '21 - lost 5kgs/11lbs
    Round 1 - Sept-Nov '20 - lost 10kgs/22lbs

  4. #16
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    I think we're all discovering what does and doesn't work for us through this process and, for some of us, its many rounds. HCG is brilliant for so many reasons: P2 is low carb if not keto, it's intermittent fasting, and it's an elimination diet that removes the majority of offenders for most of us. So it's a great reset. Not to mention the mysterious hunger-reducing effects of the hormone that give some of us the opportunity to experience a pause in our normally ravenousness that gives us an opportunity to observe the ways we may use food emotionally. Anyway, my point is to have gone through all that and come out the other side can give us a terrific brand new start. But what we do with that and how we move through it has everything to do with what comes next and how our behavior and relationship with food and our bodies evolves . . . or not.

    That's my observation, anyway.

    And Dubbles, you did so great with your P3-style PI in discovering that you simply don't need sugars and starches to have a really enjoyable and sustainable diet. And I suspect the challenges of returning to P2 for two weeks will only solidify your commitment to P3, which will all but guarantee tremendous success in stabilization.

    I think Yvonne has locked in what works for her as well: keto as a matter of course during the week with some off-roading as desired on the weekends. Allows for some flexibility and spontaneity but also the structure and stability of what's tried and true and healthiest for her body the majority of the time. I think it's great!

    I'd say for me keto-style is the thing as well, though without fanfare and without trying to eat a lot of fat. As I've said before, what seems to work best for me is low-carb paleo with intermittent fasting as a useful tool. Two meals a day within a five hour eating window seems to be the sweet spot. But that's for post-P3. And then occasional special-occasion treats for enjoyment and socializing. Going out to eat once or twice a month when my part of the world opens back up and eating whatever I like--but to satisfaction--including wine and dessert if desired, maybe even really good bread and butter, has to be a part of life long term for me. But the return to eating real food, mostly veggies with a healthy serving of protein and some good fat, ASAP and for the long haul, is crucial. Again, with the tools of fasting as needed.

  5. #17
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    But back to P3 for the moment.

    Day one of my P3 was glorious. I was very hungry. I cooked and ate wonderful, healthy things, with pleasure. Maybe a little too much, but only allowable things--no sugars and no starches. There was the feeling of starving-person syndrome in that I almost couldn't get enough food to feel satisfied after many days of being very hungry. As I mentioned in WB's thread yesterday, I suspect I could have stopped my round a few days earlier than I did because the HCG wasn't keeping me from being hungry. Oh well.

    But back to yesterday. I also went for many walks and got my steps back up to more than 12K, which is my aim for the foreseeable future every day; and I did a very nice yoga practice.

    At the end of the day I journaled about how the day went--what went well and what I want to tweak as P3 wears on. I find it's important for me to do this kind of reflection disentangled from the scale, so I may keep it up as a kind of debrief at the end of each day--at least for the first, most crucial, 10 days of P3.

    Anyway, as for the scale. This morning, pre-BM, still no period, drumroll, please . . . up 4.6.

    And it made me laugh out loud.

    This is a huge victory.

    Not the enormous gain, but my reaction to it. It really is one of my central goals to not be so emotionally attached to the scale because I so fully understand how protean this body is, its many influential factors always fluctuating--even moment to moment--and at play with that scale number, and its limited usefulness even in terms of data. Also because I absolutely possess all the tools I need to manage these shifts and fluctuations, and to some extent, that number on the scale.

    It's also funny because in retrospect, the start of this P3 presents a perfect storm. Of extreme hunger, of eating more unusual stuff than was likely prudent (coconut yogurt with a touch of rice starch, cacao nibs and montezuma chocolate, nut pods creamer in many cups of coffee, salt-brined roast chicken, andouille sausage in my keto jambalaya), of my period still not quite being here, of my subsequent constipation, of my muscle soreness from extra steps and challenging workouts this week, and on and on. Not to mention that wild fluctuations on the scale the first week of P3 are to be expected.

    See why I can't help but laugh?

    So, I'll do a steak day today. I don't think it's necessary, honestly. If I just got back to normal protein/non-starchy veggie/fat template meals eaten only when hungry and drank plenty of water and avoided all the weird stuff, no doubt my weight would come back down, especially when my period finally starts. However, I quite enjoy a steak day, and I like the clear interruption of what could be a slippery slope if I'm given all the options of what I could eat today without the constraints and simplicity of a steak day.

    I've taken a giant grass-fed NY Strip steak out of the freezer and will eat that with a big, organic fuji apple later today after my Friday routine. Walking in the woods, pilates, a Costco and Trader Joe's run, and catch-up grading. Back to black coffee for the moment (also a good interruption of that excessive, albeit dairy-free, creamer habit yesterday). When i do a steak day I tend to eat in the afternoon rather than the evening and that works for me. So, that's what I'll likely do. And hope for the best on the scale tomorrow--as well as really rein it in with this P3 to avoid more wild fluctuations.

    My last P3 was quite a breeze in so many ways, but I was in a very different place. It's good for me to be aware of that, as well as the potential pitfalls of being at goal. Not having the desire and drive to keep going to reach a different weight and different body requires a different mindset to keep going day after day. And not being committed to Whole30 like I was last time around also gives greater flexibility that can be a runaway train for me with unusual foods and food products. I'm also just straight-up experiencing a very high level of physiological hunger that I simply didn't have last P3. Last time I was struggling to want to eat enough calories. Not so much this time.

    But this is where I am now, and this is for life. So it's good for me to have the practice. Grateful to be able to reflect about all of it here.

    Oh, and I'm happy to report two wonderful things that have provided me much-needed perspective:

    1. My beloved mentor-friend had a successful lung transplant yesterday. It's early days, but this is very good news!
    2. I ordered and received a really beautiful pair of red dress pants from Banana Republic in a size 4 (!) and dared to try them on this morning before I stepped on the scale. Not only do they fit, but they're a little roomy.

    Inches matter infinitely more to me than pounds and I'll keep saying it until I believe it 100 percent. I'll take measurements after my period starts. Eager to discover what that waist measurement is--and to see if it might keep shifting as I continue to workout and maintain. Would love to see some of the skin tighten up a bit. The muscles beneath are solid, though, and that's the most important thing as far as health is concerned . . . so this is my vanity speaking. I'm not proud of it, but it's there, so I might as well be honest!

    Can't remember if I mentioned that at the end of the month when I have my next in-person follow up at my thyroid doc's office I'm going to have a body composition measurement taken. Really looking forward to that as a new baseline and to help me understand how far I've come, what I've accomplished, and what I have to maintain and sustain.

  6. #18
    Super Member! FlirtyFlo's Avatar
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    MissM.... strange that you mention it.... I have had this idea of --- Oh I can treat myself to a restaurant meal.... and then realised its not a good idea for P3, I am a sucker for Potatoes and I will not be able to resist the carbs, so I have to still work this weekend, but possibly do a BBQ or a meal with friends next weekend, this Sunday I have been invited to neighbours but with them I will side step the carbs

    The fat thing I agree with you, there is no reason to overdo fats, Health wise my mind will not have it.... But I will no longer go for the fat free options of certain products... I do love my crispy chicken skin and Lamb, generally not a big fan of pork but will do pork sausage and bacon, I will continue to use my air fryer - it is a healthy way of cooking. Never been a fan of deep fried anything, but do indulge in the occasional something cooked with butter....

    and also being mindful to when on a weekend I indulge in carbs, to keep the fats on the low side

    Happy weekend and Happy P3'ing!
    ~AKA Yvonne SA~
    Greetings from Sunny South Africa!
    Round 3 - Loading 16 Apr '21 - start weight 76.4/168.1
    Round 2 - Jan-Mar '21 - lost 5kgs/11lbs
    Round 1 - Sept-Nov '20 - lost 10kgs/22lbs

  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlirtyFlo View Post
    The fat thing I agree with you, there is no reason to overdo fats, Health wise my mind will not have it.... But I will no longer go for the fat free options of certain products... I do love my crispy chicken skin and Lamb, generally not a big fan of pork but will do pork sausage and bacon, I will continue to use my air fryer - it is a healthy way of cooking. Never been a fan of deep fried anything, but do indulge in the occasional something cooked with butter....

    and also being mindful to when on a weekend I indulge in carbs, to keep the fats on the low side
    I think you've got it right, Yvonne--or at least we're of the same mind when it comes to these things. The first time I did keto I did it by the book though--as primarily high fat, super low carb, low-to-moderate protein--and it was no bueno for this body. At the same time, heathy fats are healthy! I just say no to low fat products, and am so happy to have changed those old dieting ways! However, I also think it's prudent when eventually indulging in carbs to keep fats on the low side. That's the carb cycling principle at work, I believe, and it really does work for folks. But what fun is eating a potato if it's not slathered in butter or ghee?!? I'd rather minimize my indulgences and have them the way I really want them. But that's me. . . .

  8. #20
    Good morning everybody. Sounds like P3 is in full swing. It is a good place to be.

    MissM, sounds like you are in a good place and not sweating the scale. Body weight fluctuations are a funny thing. I would do a steak day too but honestly things should level off on their own.

    Flirty, I agree on Keto. That is basically how I eat when off of protocol. Processed carbs are a killer for me too. I generally do not shop certain aisles in the center of the supermarket. There is a young couple that have a really good Youtube channel, called Keto connect (or something like that). They do a really good job of outlining what you can eat and where you can get in trouble. Most people (me included) live under the misconception that as long as you stay away from carbs, you can eat all you want of approved items. Not even close. Just a matter of finding that balance. I am still in search of that.

    Me? Today is my first day off of HHCG. I played tennis last night. For some reason I felt bloated last night. Kind of looked it too. Very little urination this morning when I awoke. Scale up 1.2lbs from yesterday. Absolutely nothing to worry about or fret at all. Just one of those things. But it does make me happy that I made yesterday my LDD. That weight and probably more will come off the scale tomorrow.

    Anyway, tomorrow night's dinner will be my first off-protocol meal. Planning a fattier cut of steak or lamb (depends on what looks good at the market). Probably a 5-6oz portion for me, 3-4 oz for my wife. Salad with simple vinaigrette dressing with olives, avocados and a touch of crumbled blue cheese or feta. Not a big plate at all but a nice transitional meal. Then Sunday begins P3.

    Until then my plan is to remain very busy. Tonight my wife and I are eating crawfish. We found a great new spot close to our neighborhood. It is a Vietnamese style crawfish place. It is kind of a Houston thing. Vietnamese meets cajun. If you know the NW gulf coast region at all, it is a very common theme. Anyway, it is awesome and if you skip on some of the butter based flavors, still on protocol. Tomorrow morning, I am playing tennis for 3 hours. Having the last of my home cured and smoked salmon for lunch, then will be going grocery shopping for P3 then doing some yard work before dinner. The last thing I want to do is sit around doing nothing. Time moves too slow that way.

    I am planning on starting my own P3 thread in the mens forum. I will continue to check in over here so all the posts will be in one place.

  9. #21
    Super Member! FlirtyFlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineMissM View Post
    I'd rather minimize my indulgences and have them the way I really want them. But that's me. . . .
    I so agree with you!
    ~AKA Yvonne SA~
    Greetings from Sunny South Africa!
    Round 3 - Loading 16 Apr '21 - start weight 76.4/168.1
    Round 2 - Jan-Mar '21 - lost 5kgs/11lbs
    Round 1 - Sept-Nov '20 - lost 10kgs/22lbs

  10. #22
    Super Member! FlirtyFlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonblack View Post
    Flirty, I agree on Keto. That is basically how I eat when off of protocol. Processed carbs are a killer for me too. I generally do not shop certain aisles in the center of the supermarket. There is a young couple that have a really good Youtube channel, called Keto connect (or something like that). They do a really good job of outlining what you can eat and where you can get in trouble. Most people (me included) live under the misconception that as long as you stay away from carbs, you can eat all you want of approved items. Not even close. Just a matter of finding that balance. I am still in search of that.
    Thanks WilsonBlack... I think that would be very helpful. Like you I only know the basics of keto But how I navigate it is mainly using the knowledge I have built up over years of dieting, So yes, we cut starches and sugars, But in the Original Atkins Diet - all Green and White veggies (excluding Peas)were allowed because it is lower in Carbs. In terms of Fruits I look at the Glycemic loading not so much the Glycemic index. I use herbs in abundance but am mindful of Spices, as some has hidden additives. I will have my wine, but will sometimes replace with whisky or gin as there are no hidden empty carbs like with wine.

    MissM... what was the name of the Keto book you talked about?
    ~AKA Yvonne SA~
    Greetings from Sunny South Africa!
    Round 3 - Loading 16 Apr '21 - start weight 76.4/168.1
    Round 2 - Jan-Mar '21 - lost 5kgs/11lbs
    Round 1 - Sept-Nov '20 - lost 10kgs/22lbs

  11. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FlirtyFlo View Post
    I will have my wine, but will sometimes replace with whisky or gin as there are no hidden empty carbs like with wine.
    I absolutely love wine. I mainly drink dry red wine only. It isn't too bad for you in moderation but is way better than sweeter wines. I don't plan on giving up wine and will have a glass or three tomorrow night. That is my main indulgence and have no plans on giving that up. But I do plan on using the same frame of mind towards the wine drinking that I will towards eating habits. Have a big glass of water between glasses of wine. I have done that in the past but not enough. Find balance.

  12. #24
    Super Member! Dubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlirtyFlo View Post
    MissM... I so agree, the expression 'get your mind out of the gutter' comes to mind!!!

    move away from this diet or that regime.... we have to train our brains to think away from what has become second nature re fasting and dieting etc,.... that being said, I am very comfortable with a keto plan, not because I want to be in ketosis, but because I know starch is my enemy.... so my new normal going forward would be to do a kind of Keto regime Monday to Friday and allowing myself leeway over weekends

    P is about rethinking your new normal going forward
    That sounds like a decent plan to me, Yvonne. I do think sugars are my enemy. And diet colas. Have to ditch them for good. I really didn't find P3 eating difficult at all. My problem over long term is I love desserts. I really need to figure out 2/3 I could fix for my DH and myself, that wouldn't cause gains, or trigger cravings and bad habits.


    Yes, P3 is about rethinking new normal going forward.

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