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Thread: The Stabilization of MissM

  1. #37
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    You two are seriously making me want to open a bottle of wine! But I shall resist. No alcohol for at least three weeks of P3 for me is, I think, the best way for now. And when I do have some, I'll make sure not to have other fruit on that day--as well as stay away from other higher carb foods. That's kind of my approach toward balance when I'm in my right mind. Of course, once the wine flows, my right mind gives way to my happy, party-girl brain, and she's not to be trusted . . . most of the time. But she sure is fun!

    FWIW, I love dry rosés in the summertime, too. I've found a couple French ones that are quite good and quite affordable amid the boom and influx of "****ty pink wine season" as one friend calls it. When I lived in Prague, I actually discovered an amazing Czech rosé, believe it or not. But by and large I prefer my wines on the drier and lighter side, except for a really lovely, robust cab in the colder months with hearty meats.

    It's wine with food that's the magic, though, I agree; and I have no idea what y'all are talking about that the two shouldn't be combined. I even did a cursory google search and all I came up with is the common wisdom I learned: that drinking without eating is a recipe for disaster. I'm open to hearing more, though I doubt I'll adhere to it. The only thing I'll drink without eating is my my summertime, poolside, clear-alcohol cocktails that are to be enjoyed with my entourage of gay friends, namely vodka or white tequila with club soda and lime. Refreshing, easy on the waistline, and I'm an old pro at managing how much is the right amount. Believe me when I tell you I've done my time embarrassing myself with overmuch. But I was younger and cuter then, so it wasn't nearly as embarrassing or downright shameful as it would be now.

    I once took a day trip with my BFF and his partner who live in San Francisco to Napa and Sonoma. I'm in no way a wine snob; in fact, I pretty much am only good for detecting what I like. However, that sure was a beautiful part of the world to visit. Only slightly ruined by snobbery. There's still plenty of realness. I'd love to go back for longer some time.

  2. #38
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    The update here is that yes, indeed, my period began mere hours after I posted yesterday; I completed a successful steak day as planned; and today the scale reflected my LIW of 130. By God I love it when things turn out exactly the way I'd hoped.

    So now back to the reality of P3 and this process of self discovery if not self transformation. My hunger is very different right now than it was at the start of my last P3. And whether that's because I'm at goal or because of TOM or some combination therein doesn't really matter. I'm choosing to see it as an opportunity to pay attention, be mindful, and respond in kind.

    It occurred to me this morning that this may require a bit more vigilance than I've had in the past. I'm considering literally writing down my hunger and satiety levels with each meal, at least as a 10-day experiment. This kind of hyper awareness can be very annoying, but for a limited time I think it could be quite useful. And it would have the added benefit of supportive structure to meal times. If I put the journal on my dining table it will be a visual cue of that is where I eat. Not standing up nibbling, not on the couch in front of the tv, and not as I'm rushing out to my car. I would like to get really clear about meals and their start and end times so as to really clue in to those signals. Especially because I've felt so very hungry and it can feel so urgent, like if I don't grab something and put it in my mouth immediately, disaster will strike. And that's simply not true. I am well fed and well nourished on the whole so as to accurately say "hunger is not an emergency." Even my strongest urges to eat can wait for me to nicely plate my food, sit down at the table, jot down my hunger level, and put my napkin on my lap before taking the first bite.

    And what I know from past experiments of this nature is that I tend to take greater care with my food when I have this kind of structure and expectation in place. I pay attention to aesthetics and I enjoy the cooking process more. It becomes more of a creative art and less of a drudgery. I think it's good to capitalize on the newfound freedoms of P3 and the enjoyment I've observed in myself as well as Yvonne and Jeff in their logs of exploring, procuring, preparing some wonderful foods that have been off limits for some time.

    As I mentioned before, part of me just wants to go hog wild and eat ALL THE THINGS I CAN. But the wiser, calmer part of me with bigger plans for this P3 and for my life and relationship to food wants more than that to create a different dynamic with food. Perhaps one that, as I think I mentioned in response to one of Jeff's posts, may actually increase the pleasure and enjoyment of the experience.

    What if we can have it all?!?

    I'm going to sit with that question today. BBL with some recipes and a report of how this experiment goes today.

    Happy Saturday, friends!!

  3. #39
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    MissM.... i was amazed at the feeling of calm I experienced in the shop today.... i looked at everything and I honestly had a ‘tomorrow is another day’ i did not have the feeling that I had to get if all

    With regards to the alcohol with food is that in the presence of alcohol.... the body will ignore everything else and first burn the calories of the alcohol.... i think it is because the energy provided by the alcohol requires little effort by the body where calories from good need to be processed first.... but my thoughts are that you me and jeff are all active, so we do have some leeway on calories in and out

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    I've devised a five-point scale for myself around hunger and satiety, and had my first go with documenting hunger before eating and satiety afterward. I think this will be a good practice to establish, if only for a week or so. The goal is to become more aware of my tendencies and impulses--and more mindful about my eating practices.

    I was VERY hungry this morning, but I slept in and had to make some choices about what to prioritize. I had a zoom call for yoga coaching at 10 followed by a zoom yoga class at 11, and I really prefer to do a vigorous yoga practice like my Saturday morning class on an empty stomach. So, I drank two cups of coffee with collagen (tried two different flavors from Thrive Market, which I just joined and am very much enjoying and so far recommend!) and prepared this for after yoga. I've been craving Tex-Mex something fierce, and it really hit the spot with some added avocado (my first bites of avocado in months!!), lime, and cilantro.

    So, I delayed eating a couple of hours but did give my body some nourishment, and it all worked out OK. In fact, my hunger level when I finally did sit down to eat at 12:30 was strong, but less urgent than it was at 9 when I drank the fortified coffee.

    I'm also tracking my food in the ww app, and this is very instructive as well. I ate 1/4 of the casserole, a large and hearty portion that included 4 oz of grass fed ground beef and an egg as well as 1.5 oz of avocado. Significant food. And I easily could have eaten double that. But instead I sat with my diminished hunger at the table and observed. Did I need more food or just want the sensation in my mouth and belly? Was there something else I wanted to eat more than a second helping?

    I opted for an apple and some chocolate and coconut chips. But in checking it against the ww app, I realized how very dense those foods are as well, and considered the possibility that I didn't need to eat as much as I might have had I not been measuring. I also was brewing some Rasa rose cacao, and knew the additional warm beverage would help satisfy me at the end of the meal. Anyway, I measured out 12 g of montezuma chocolate and .25 oz of roasted coconut chips, and ate them mindfully with my apple and tasty beverage. It was a wonderful treat/dessert that I aim to not make a regular occurrence after meals, and yet for today, I believe it was a good choice. A full second portion of the casserole more than likely would have pushed me over the edge.

    My second meal today set for later will be built around this recipe, also from Michelle Tam, aka NomNomPaleo, whose recipes are always winning. I'll be using it as a salad dressing atop ground lamb seasoned with greek spice from Penzey's. And I'm considering also making a soup to go with it--either a pureed cauliflower or broccoli soup made creamy with some cashews in my beloved Vitamix.

    I don't expect to get hungry before meal time given what I just ate and how satisfied I feel--not to mention the fact that it adds up to my sweet spot for ww points.

    FWIW yesterday I pulled off my bookshelf the books "eating mindfully" by susan albers, and "The Yoga of Eating" by Charles Eisenstein, and perused the underlined and dog-eared parts. I think drawing on as many of my resources as possible is helping me through right now. I may or may not be referencing them from time to time.

    Planning a walk in the nature center to make some Vitamin D soon. It's a good day!

  5. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlirtyFlo View Post
    MissM.... i was amazed at the feeling of calm I experienced in the shop today.... i looked at everything and I honestly had a ‘tomorrow is another day’ i did not have the feeling that I had to get if all

    With regards to the alcohol with food is that in the presence of alcohol.... the body will ignore everything else and first burn the calories of the alcohol.... i think it is because the energy provided by the alcohol requires little effort by the body where calories from good need to be processed first.... but my thoughts are that you me and jeff are all active, so we do have some leeway on calories in and out
    Three cheers for CALM!!!

    Thanks for that explanation about alcohol vs food calories. That makes sense, but I agree with you. Not just about activity and burning calories, but back to the idea that we have to not only live our lives, but enjoy them. I enjoy wine primarily with food but really quite rarely. Every once in a while I think it will be just fine to push back on calorie-burning potential in this way. Honestly, I don't even want to think much about calories in and calories out anymore. I don't think it's ever served me well at all. And yet I do still need to be mindful about portions and getting the tastiest, most nutrient-dense foods into my body with the most pleasure and the ideal frequency.

    And yet all of the above is yet to be determined. That's what this P3 is for.

  6. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineMissM View Post
    I think we're all discovering what does and doesn't work for us through this process and, for some of us, its many rounds. HCG is brilliant for so many reasons: P2 is low carb if not keto, it's intermittent fasting, and it's an elimination diet that removes the majority of offenders for most of us. So it's a great reset. Not to mention the mysterious hunger-reducing effects of the hormone that give some of us the opportunity to experience a pause in our normally ravenousness that gives us an opportunity to observe the ways we may use food emotionally. Anyway, my point is to have gone through all that and come out the other side can give us a terrific brand new start. But what we do with that and how we move through it has everything to do with what comes next and how our behavior and relationship with food and our bodies evolves . . . or not.

    That's my observation, anyway.

    And Dubbles, you did so great with your P3-style PI in discovering that you simply don't need sugars and starches to have a really enjoyable and sustainable diet. And I suspect the challenges of returning to P2 for two weeks will only solidify your commitment to P3, which will all but guarantee tremendous success in stabilization.

    I think Yvonne has locked in what works for her as well: keto as a matter of course during the week with some off-roading as desired on the weekends. Allows for some flexibility and spontaneity but also the structure and stability of what's tried and true and healthiest for her body the majority of the time. I think it's great!

    I'd say for me keto-style is the thing as well, though without fanfare and without trying to eat a lot of fat. As I've said before, what seems to work best for me is low-carb paleo with intermittent fasting as a useful tool. Two meals a day within a five hour eating window seems to be the sweet spot. But that's for post-P3. And then occasional special-occasion treats for enjoyment and socializing. Going out to eat once or twice a month when my part of the world opens back up and eating whatever I like--but to satisfaction--including wine and dessert if desired, maybe even really good bread and butter, has to be a part of life long term for me. But the return to eating real food, mostly veggies with a healthy serving of protein and some good fat, ASAP and for the long haul, is crucial. Again, with the tools of fasting as needed.
    Just a couple of my thoughts for what’s it’s worth.....P2 is not low carb unless you are doing 2.0 and omitting fruits and melba. Even if omitting just the melba, it’s still not low carb because of the 2 fruits. As an example, I entered in my food log for yesterday and with the fruits (apple & strawberries)/melba, and carbs represented 50% of my macros. Definitely not low carb it’s also not Keto because Keto is both high fat and low carbs. I would best describe P2 (if doing original protocol) as extremely low calorie and low fat. Completely agree with your other observations, that P2 is a great elimination diet, a great reset, and depending on how you time your meals, can be intermittent fasting. And boy are you right that the appetite suppressing hormone is just magic! I did low carb and keto for years. I was always able to maintain my weight well on it, however, it tanked my adrenals which made me extremely fatigued and I was always very irritable. I’ve done P2 with 2.0 protocol before too, which is low carb. I know it works well for some, but for me, I didn’t enjoy it as much and i it didn’t really make a difference on the scale either. This is just my personal experience. I also think guys do better with low carb long term than women.

  7. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineMissM View Post
    Dubbles, check out chocolatecoveredkatie on the web for her dessert recipes. There's a chocolate cake that's so good you won't even know it's low carb.

    Yvonne, what are the low-sugar South African reds you have mentioned in the past? Any favorites we might be able to find here? Also need to look up what you mentioned about alcohol and food--that's all new to me.

    WB sounds like a fabulous plan. Enjoy every moment, every mouthful! Wine is something I absolutely love, but only on occasion anymore, thankfully. Largely because BF doesn't drink it, I think, and I have no interest in drinking alone. Also, I'm from Dallas, but haven't been to Houston since the '90s. I've heard it's quite a marvelous town these days--a far cry from the city I once knew.

    Happy Friday, all!! I'm doing much better now that I ate my steak. I was feeling pretty awful--grumpy, exhausted, not in good form. Pilates was a slog and my instructor was really irritating me. I take heart that this means my period is likely hours away--what a happy dance I'll do when she arrives!
    Agree, chocolatecoveredkatie has some great recipes! And so does Carolyn Ketchum if your not familiar with her!

    MissM, today is my 3rd day in a row eating the tomato soup with shrimp...thanks again for that idea! Something else I’ve found that makes it even better is some smoked paprika...and for P3 you could really make it heavenly by adding some heavy cream....ummm hmmm good

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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineMissM View Post
    I think you've got it right, Yvonne--or at least we're of the same mind when it comes to these things. The first time I did keto I did it by the book though--as primarily high fat, super low carb, low-to-moderate protein--and it was no bueno for this body. At the same time, heathy fats are healthy! I just say no to low fat products, and am so happy to have changed those old dieting ways! However, I also think it's prudent when eventually indulging in carbs to keep fats on the low side. That's the carb cycling principle at work, I believe, and it really does work for folks. But what fun is eating a potato if it's not slathered in butter or ghee?!? I'd rather minimize my indulgences and have them the way I really want them. But that's me. . . .
    Totally agree. If indulging high carb, must keep the fats low in order not to gain. Easier said than done though, right?! Why do carbs and fat go so well together? My downfall for sure is eating both together! Hence why I end up back here to reset...sigh...

    And replying to your other post about wines....I just love a dry Rose’ as well. Funny because i just discovered this last year when a friend brought me a bottle to try. For some strange reason, I always thought all Rose’ wines were sweet, which is why I never tried them. There is a French one I really like as well... Fleurs de Prairie...

  9. #45
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    I guess I tend to use the term "low carb" excessively loosely. To me, to not eat grains or root veggies with limited fresh fruit is, indeed, low carb compared to a SAD diet--or even the kind of Whole30-style diet I've done off and on for years. But I take your point.

    And I know you love cream and creamy soups, JGD, but dairy is out for me because of a casein intolerance. So, no heavenly heavy cream for me--in soups or otherwise. Except maybe on Christmas, whipped and sweetened to have with mincemeat tarts.

    I did, however, end up trying cashew cream to make a creamy broccoli soup inspired by this recipe. Talk about heavenly (especially because I made it with homemade bone broth and garlic)! Though I ended up using much less of the cashew cream than I made. Will have to figure out how to best make use of it little by little. That is if the scale tomorrow isn't way up. I'm suspicious of nuts in P3 as a mainstay, but we shall see. . . .

  10. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by DivineMissM View Post
    What if we can have it all?!?
    !!
    That is the goal. I feel like I finally have the key to that lock. Just find the right balance. To be continued as this is a work in progress

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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineMissM View Post
    I guess I tend to use the term "low carb" excessively loosely. To me, to not eat grains or root veggies with limited fresh fruit is, indeed, low carb compared to a SAD diet--or even the kind of Whole30-style diet I've done off and on for years. But I take your point.

    And I know you love cream and creamy soups, JGD, but dairy is out for me because of a casein intolerance. So, no heavenly heavy cream for me--in soups or otherwise. Except maybe on Christmas, whipped and sweetened to have with mincemeat tarts.

    I did, however, end up trying cashew cream to make a creamy broccoli soup inspired by this recipe. Talk about heavenly (especially because I made it with homemade bone broth and garlic)! Though I ended up using much less of the cashew cream than I made. Will have to figure out how to best make use of it little by little. That is if the scale tomorrow isn't way up. I'm suspicious of nuts in P3 as a mainstay, but we shall see. . . .
    I actually did make a creamy soup one time by just blending up a few raw cashews with the soup. It was really good. Coconut cream might be another good option depending on the soup.

  12. #48
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    MissM... I admire your dedication!
    Being at goal and with your family history , I understand the importance for you to get it right... well done!
    I know P3 is not about counting calories, but as you know, my biggest concern in P3 is not eating enough...
    My habit of undereating is my enemy and having added 10,000 steps a day I have the numbers on my watch...i need to see how it all relates to the scale now that I am in P3

    This might sound funny... even the slightest sign of constipation makes my stomach uncomfortable... so with all my additional foods and the seeds i have woken up to a glorious BM this morning...now for the scale
    ~AKA Yvonne SA~
    Greetings from Sunny South Africa!
    Round 3 - Loading 16 Apr '21 - start weight 76.4/168.1
    Round 2 - Jan-Mar '21 - lost 5kgs/11lbs
    Round 1 - Sept-Nov '20 - lost 10kgs/22lbs

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