Thread: Surviving P3 and P4 with the help of friends...

I've gone through phases with bulletproof coffee and I've used gelatin for gummies and also non-gelatinous things, but honestly, I didn't and don't see or feel the magic. Like I said in an earlier post, sometimes I'll add collagen peptides to my coffee in hopes it will improve my skin/nails/hair, but I'm not so sure it actually does anything useful except cost extra money. I'm honestly moving closer and closer to giving up everything except real, whole foods. We'll see how I feel after P2, but that's where I am today with it all. I even opted to do my P2 without stevia. Trying to radically change my taste buds and tendency toward pre-diabetes. I've read a lot about how any and all sweet tastes can cause an insulin spike. But you know I'm also experimenting with IF and "clean fasting," though I understand that's not for everyone. So far I'm learning SO MUCH about myself through this process, and that's more than the weight loss I thought I was doing HCG for. Amazing!

Originally Posted by FlirtyFlo

P3 can be interpreted in so many ways...so many conflicting articles and opinions... I feel like I am right back as square one after each article....

So to sum up what I think is close to protocol

• Start by increasing calories gradually
  This does not mean you have to count calories
  although I will, because I want to make sure I know where I fall off the rails and also dedicated myself that if looking at a plate of food To know roughly what my intake would be ...going forward
  but to start out with 800 ish and every day increase it a bit more and see how the scale reacts
  This is where I will probably include a good quality Protein powder shake daily
  Increased calories should come for Increasing Proteins and eating more vegetables and fruits
  However no high sugar fruits
  What is the general take on Calories week 1,2 and 3?

FATS

• This is where it is confusing
  Simeons says in the absence of Starches Fats can be introduced
  Some says healthy fats
  But then some say to go easy on fats?
  I would for example on a weekend like a rasher of bacon with an egg.... or maybe only after a week in?
  As a rule in my life I don't do fatty foods and avoid anything deep fried so my fats will come from maybe bacon, cheeses, yogurt and avo.....
  I think last time nuts got me into trouble so I will take that one easy...start out with seeds first and then see what nuts do
  One of my go to breakfasts would be a smoothie with fat-free yogurt.. My lactose intolerance cope Ok with Yogurt, cheese I have to limit

STARCHES and SUBSTITUTES

• As I think with most of us starches is our downfall
  As I have said before, I have go-to supplier supplying wraps, noodles, lasgnesheets all made from vegetables with a carn count of below 2gms per serving...so that is already a part of my normal and it will fit into P3
  However... what is the take on almond etc flours.... They are pretty high in calories and medium ish on the carbs...I am a keen baker and I experiment often.... but don't want to if it will get me into trouble

ALCOHOL

• Interesting thing is that I have always been under the impression that wine has more carbs than spirits... yet after some research wines have few calories, much less than I thought ant per glass very similar calories....
  Even the so called low calorie wines are very similar to regular wines. so might as well enjoy the good stuff....
  But is this a question of which one you can refrain from having a 2nd or third?
  Also read that he you drink and eat at the same time...Your body will FIRST burn the alcohol, and then if extra enery is required, it will burn the food you have eaten
  So my thought is.... If you know you are going to go out... have dinner first.. and wait 1-2 hours before consuming alcohol?

GENERAL STUFF

• Ok so with P3 we are prone to eat out more away from home and I have logging MyFitnesspal on my phone.... so I am going to keep a small notebook to recorded everything I eat
  I know sweet things will be tempting but I always keep sugar free jelly at hand
  All these sugar free sweets in the shops gives me the runs, so I will stay away from that
  Still eating 6 servings a day (Some prefer the intermittent fasting route)
  Not incorporating stuff that is not a part of your life, unless it is new and helpful in the long run
  Water water water!
  If I am going to be drinking any alcohol.... I can have it, provided I have but enough calories to compensate for it - fair trade I think

'Anyone who can add to this list or any other ideas?

I've been contemplating this quite a bit myself and have come to various conclusions as well. While I've read online about the importance of gradually increasing calories and being careful about bringing in too much fat too soon, I've also read from some more trusted sources that it's equally important--if not more so--to not make the mistake of restricting calories because that can set you up for major problems.

I know we're coming from different places and histories, so of course, please take my plan for what it is: MY plan. While I'm petrified of regaining, I also really want to use HCG to cure a lifelong dieting mentality and issues with emotional eating. So, I'm sticking to Simeons' protocol and heeding my doc's advice: no calorie counting and strictly no sugars and no starches and no dairy or alcohol for the first three weeks with daily weighing to make sure I don't fluctuate more than two pounds up or down from LIW (thanks for the clarification on that FlirtyFlo and Leez--I had been wondering about that too!). I'm also going to stay away from nuts--except two brazil nuts a day for selenium per doc's orders --because they tend to cause problems for me. I'm going to continue with a mindful shortened eating window, because IF is working really well for me right now--though I don't plan to do it forever and will continue to monitor how I feel. I will, however, shift more toward a Whole30 style template for my meals, including a palm-sized portion of meat (might stay away from pork for a little while, because it can cause me problems), plenty of non-starchy veggies (and a greater variety), and a dollop of fat, which could include avocado, homemade mayo, olive oil, olives, ghee, coconut milk or flakes, or just the fat that's already in the foods, like egg yolks or fattier cuts of meat. I'm also going to stay away from most fruits except berries and apples for the first three weeks, mostly because they're not in season where I live.

After the first three weeks of stabilization, I'm going to continue with avoiding sugars and starches and dairy and alcohol, though I may start to allow more nuts and some starchier veggies now and again, like winter squashes and potatoes of all kinds, but I'll be careful with portions and be aware of what my fruit intake is like on those days. I may also allow myself a glass of wine on a special occasion (my birthday, T-Gives, Christmas, and New Year's are all falling during this time frame!), but as FlirtyFlo mentioned, I'll have it with food. And I'll avoid starches and fruits on days I choose to imbibe as well as limit myself to ONE glass. Likely wine. I have had good success with organic low-sugar wines in the past, but since then, my state stopped allowing shipment of alcohol through the mail and I haven't been able to order it from California, unfortunately. I'll need to do some research about where I might be able to get it now. Because it really did make a difference.

Then after the new year, we'll see how it goes. I would love to try reintroducing beans and legumes, because I love them, especially in colder months, and black eyed peas are a special New Year's tradition that I particularly enjoy. Though I also may end up doing another round of HCG with y'all. It really just depends on where I land and how I feel. HCG is showing me just how metabolically disordered I've been and that it may actually be possible to get down to a truly healthy weight for my height I never dreamed possible. I'm about a pound and a half right now from the highest normal BMI weight for my height, and it's lower than I've ever been able to maintain as an adult. And I still have a week or two to go on this round. All my clothes fit. I feel like a new person. I'll just need to see how it goes and whether it feels like maintaining whatever my LIW turns out to be is the best thing to do for a while or if I'm ready to keep going and see if a weight within the 125-135 range might be possible and sustainable for me.

As FlirtyFlo mentioned, winter actually feels like a good time to do this--not to mention incredibly supportive during the pandemic and a likely return to quarantine--as I'm hunkered down at home and not terribly social anyway. It would be amazing for once to re-emerge in spring and into summer without anxiety about my body. Throwing off that anxiety is at least as important to me as how my body looks and feels. I'm realizing how interconnected it all has been my entire life. Ultimately, what I'm looking for is freedom. And I'm just not sure yet how that will look or when I will know it's time to stay in maintenance or keep going with another round of HCG. I'll talk to my doc about it, too, because there are implications for my thyroid and meds and my body shifts and changes.

Originally Posted by Leez

That is just wrong.

From the manuscript in the section titled "skipping a meal" which is the section on P3.

That clearly gives the guideline of what LIW is. (Last Injection Weight). Different acronyms are used, but the L always stands for last, not lowest.

Its not unusual to lose more during those 72 hours without HCG, but almost no one gets to keep any of those losses. So making your LIW lower just sets you up for problems as you try to stabilize in P3 as you rightly assessed.

And there is no extra shot to take after the 72 hours. Wonder where that idea came from.

Boo to NuImage for that misinformation. A good reminder to always need to check the manuscript for ourselves.

I am really so weary of all the docs offices making money off this protocol Just read and follow P&I. This is exactly how confusion happens. They do this and change the protocol. Just ugh.