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Thread: Surviving P3 and P4 with the help of friends...

  1. #25
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    Bullet proof coffee is too rich for me too. The most MCT I use in coffee is 2 tsp, but usually 1. I get a bit nauseous if I use more. Butter in coffee is just one step up from heavy cream. Which is well.....awesome. ^_^ It does take a bit to wrap your mind around the concept though.

    You can use regular food grade gelatin. Knox or whatever brand is standard in your area works fine. I make the gelatin gummies too. Its a trick to get the sweetener just right though. I find using lemon as flavoring and the right amount of mineral salt gives the best outcome on that.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview

    My recent HCG round was with DietDoc. A full review of my experience and how the round progressed can be found here: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog is here

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

  2. #26
    Super Member! FlirtyFlo's Avatar
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    Leez please do share the recipe for your gummy bears

    Round about 2010 till I did HCG for the first time I was sitting at 109KG/240lbs and was struggling with Unstable Type 2 Diabetes and I found this site and used them a lot. It is a business specializing In Foodstuffs for diabetics
    Fair enough some products still contain Higher carbs than I would like... but I will go through their list again and order what I can add to p3 and P4
    https://www.delitedashfood.co.za/all...cts-tantalize/
    They are extremely helpful where There is no nutritional values, They used to get back to me in no time at alll

    Will definitely look at getting the jam making kit as I always do Jams at Christmas as gifts
    ~AKA Yvonne SA~
    Greetings from Sunny South Africa!
    First round since 2015!
    Sept '20 - Wk 1= -4.2/9.24 | wk 2= -1.3/2.86 | Wk 3= -1.4/3.08 | Wk 4= -1.3/2.86 | Wk 5= -1/2.2 | Week 6= -.8/.44 | Total loss 10kg/ 22lbs - LIW 178.4
    P3 end week 1 - Up 2.43 from LIW (Steak day16 Nov) | P3 end week 2 - on LIW great feeling

  3. #27
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    I've gone through phases with bulletproof coffee and I've used gelatin for gummies and also non-gelatinous things, but honestly, I didn't and don't see or feel the magic. Like I said in an earlier post, sometimes I'll add collagen peptides to my coffee in hopes it will improve my skin/nails/hair, but I'm not so sure it actually does anything useful except cost extra money. I'm honestly moving closer and closer to giving up everything except real, whole foods. We'll see how I feel after P2, but that's where I am today with it all. I even opted to do my P2 without stevia. Trying to radically change my taste buds and tendency toward pre-diabetes. I've read a lot about how any and all sweet tastes can cause an insulin spike. But you know I'm also experimenting with IF and "clean fasting," though I understand that's not for everyone. So far I'm learning SO MUCH about myself through this process, and that's more than the weight loss I thought I was doing HCG for. Amazing!

  4. #28
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    I don't make bears...I just pour into an 8 inch square pan or bread loaf pan and cut in blocks after its set.

    6-8 T. gelatin (depending on how firm you like them. I think Knox gels harder than the Great Lakes and similar brands)
    1 C boiling water
    1 C. lemon juice (I use the bottled kind)
    1/4 tsp stevia extract powder (you'll have to experiment to get your best amount)
    1/2 tsp mineral salt

    Dissolve the gelatin in the boiling water, then stir in the rest. Sometimes I'll add 3-4 grams vitamin C powder or some baobab powder for the extra C
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview

    My recent HCG round was with DietDoc. A full review of my experience and how the round progressed can be found here: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog is here

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

  5. #29
    Super Member! FlirtyFlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leez View Post
    depending on how firm you like them. I think Knox gels harder than the Great Lakes and similar brands)
    Obviously, I will have to go with local brands but will definitely try them..... Have heaps of moulds I can use so that could be fun...
    I am busy looking at cookie and fondant moulds I almost got the gummy bears last week ...but could not justify a reason to by them...drat now I have a reason!!
    ~AKA Yvonne SA~
    Greetings from Sunny South Africa!
    First round since 2015!
    Sept '20 - Wk 1= -4.2/9.24 | wk 2= -1.3/2.86 | Wk 3= -1.4/3.08 | Wk 4= -1.3/2.86 | Wk 5= -1/2.2 | Week 6= -.8/.44 | Total loss 10kg/ 22lbs - LIW 178.4
    P3 end week 1 - Up 2.43 from LIW (Steak day16 Nov) | P3 end week 2 - on LIW great feeling

  6. #30
    Super Member! FlirtyFlo's Avatar
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    P3 can be interpreted in so many ways...so many conflicting articles and opinions... I feel like I am right back as square one after each article....

    So to sum up what I think is close to protocol

    • Start by increasing calories gradually
      This does not mean you have to count calories
      although I will, because I want to make sure I know where I fall off the rails and also dedicated myself that if looking at a plate of food To know roughly what my intake would be ...going forward
      but to start out with 800 ish and every day increase it a bit more and see how the scale reacts
      This is where I will probably include a good quality Protein powder shake daily
      Increased calories should come for Increasing Proteins and eating more vegetables and fruits
      However no high sugar fruits
      What is the general take on Calories week 1,2 and 3?


    FATS
    • This is where it is confusing
      Simeons says in the absence of Starches Fats can be introduced
      Some says healthy fats
      But then some say to go easy on fats?
      I would for example on a weekend like a rasher of bacon with an egg.... or maybe only after a week in?
      As a rule in my life I don't do fatty foods and avoid anything deep fried so my fats will come from maybe bacon, cheeses, yogurt and avo.....
      I think last time nuts got me into trouble so I will take that one easy...start out with seeds first and then see what nuts do
      One of my go to breakfasts would be a smoothie with fat-free yogurt.. My lactose intolerance cope Ok with Yogurt, cheese I have to limit


    STARCHES and SUBSTITUTES
    • As I think with most of us starches is our downfall
      As I have said before, I have go-to supplier supplying wraps, noodles, lasgnesheets all made from vegetables with a carn count of below 2gms per serving...so that is already a part of my normal and it will fit into P3
      However... what is the take on almond etc flours.... They are pretty high in calories and medium ish on the carbs...I am a keen baker and I experiment often.... but don't want to if it will get me into trouble


    ALCOHOL
    • Interesting thing is that I have always been under the impression that wine has more carbs than spirits... yet after some research wines have few calories, much less than I thought ant per glass very similar calories....
      Even the so called low calorie wines are very similar to regular wines. so might as well enjoy the good stuff....
      But is this a question of which one you can refrain from having a 2nd or third?
      Also read that he you drink and eat at the same time...Your body will FIRST burn the alcohol, and then if extra enery is required, it will burn the food you have eaten
      So my thought is.... If you know you are going to go out... have dinner first.. and wait 1-2 hours before consuming alcohol?


    GENERAL STUFF
    • Ok so with P3 we are prone to eat out more away from home and I have logging MyFitnesspal on my phone.... so I am going to keep a small notebook to recorded everything I eat
      I know sweet things will be tempting but I always keep sugar free jelly at hand
      All these sugar free sweets in the shops gives me the runs, so I will stay away from that
      Still eating 6 servings a day (Some prefer the intermittent fasting route)
      Not incorporating stuff that is not a part of your life, unless it is new and helpful in the long run
      Water water water!
      If I am going to be drinking any alcohol.... I can have it, provided I have but enough calories to compensate for it - fair trade I think


    'Anyone who can add to this list or any other ideas?
    ~AKA Yvonne SA~
    Greetings from Sunny South Africa!
    First round since 2015!
    Sept '20 - Wk 1= -4.2/9.24 | wk 2= -1.3/2.86 | Wk 3= -1.4/3.08 | Wk 4= -1.3/2.86 | Wk 5= -1/2.2 | Week 6= -.8/.44 | Total loss 10kg/ 22lbs - LIW 178.4
    P3 end week 1 - Up 2.43 from LIW (Steak day16 Nov) | P3 end week 2 - on LIW great feeling

  7. #31
    Super Member! FlirtyFlo's Avatar
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    LDW....
    Now this baffles me...
    to my knowledge,
    LDW stands for Last Drop weight OR
    LIW which is Last Injection weight...

    I know a lot of people still lose in the 72 hours, but it has always been recommended to stick to the weight on the last day you administer HCG...
    but if you can sustain the extra weight lost in the 72 hours I guess you can take a shot

    But yesterday I heard something completely new, and totally not what I understood LDW/LIW to be...

    This is copied from the NuImage site and I think really people just pick the lowest weight and probably set themselves up for yo yo ing perhaps?

    "According to Dr. Simeon's P3 guide, he states that every morning your weight should be within 2 pounds of your LDW (lowest daily weight). Your LDW is the last weight you recorded while you were eating on the 500 calorie protocol-or your morning weight the first day you started Phase 3"
    ~AKA Yvonne SA~
    Greetings from Sunny South Africa!
    First round since 2015!
    Sept '20 - Wk 1= -4.2/9.24 | wk 2= -1.3/2.86 | Wk 3= -1.4/3.08 | Wk 4= -1.3/2.86 | Wk 5= -1/2.2 | Week 6= -.8/.44 | Total loss 10kg/ 22lbs - LIW 178.4
    P3 end week 1 - Up 2.43 from LIW (Steak day16 Nov) | P3 end week 2 - on LIW great feeling

  8. #32
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    That is just wrong.

    From the manuscript in the section titled "skipping a meal" which is the section on P3.
    As long as their weight stays within two pounds of the weight reached on the day of the last injection
    That clearly gives the guideline of what LIW is. (Last Injection Weight). Different acronyms are used, but the L always stands for last, not lowest.

    Its not unusual to lose more during those 72 hours without HCG, but almost no one gets to keep any of those losses. So making your LIW lower just sets you up for problems as you try to stabilize in P3 as you rightly assessed.

    And there is no extra shot to take after the 72 hours. Wonder where that idea came from.

    Boo to NuImage for that misinformation. A good reminder to always need to check the manuscript for ourselves.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview

    My recent HCG round was with DietDoc. A full review of my experience and how the round progressed can be found here: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog is here

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

  9. #33
    Super Member! FlirtyFlo's Avatar
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    so agree with you!... i cannot believe how many people jumped on the band wagon under the name of HCG
    I mention these things because It is the stuff available to people with no previous history... and this is what new people on P3 has to figure out and dort thriugh....
    ~AKA Yvonne SA~
    Greetings from Sunny South Africa!
    First round since 2015!
    Sept '20 - Wk 1= -4.2/9.24 | wk 2= -1.3/2.86 | Wk 3= -1.4/3.08 | Wk 4= -1.3/2.86 | Wk 5= -1/2.2 | Week 6= -.8/.44 | Total loss 10kg/ 22lbs - LIW 178.4
    P3 end week 1 - Up 2.43 from LIW (Steak day16 Nov) | P3 end week 2 - on LIW great feeling

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlirtyFlo View Post
    P3 can be interpreted in so many ways...so many conflicting articles and opinions... I feel like I am right back as square one after each article....

    So to sum up what I think is close to protocol

    • Start by increasing calories gradually
      This does not mean you have to count calories
      although I will, because I want to make sure I know where I fall off the rails and also dedicated myself that if looking at a plate of food To know roughly what my intake would be ...going forward
      but to start out with 800 ish and every day increase it a bit more and see how the scale reacts
      This is where I will probably include a good quality Protein powder shake daily
      Increased calories should come for Increasing Proteins and eating more vegetables and fruits
      However no high sugar fruits
      What is the general take on Calories week 1,2 and 3?


    FATS
    • This is where it is confusing
      Simeons says in the absence of Starches Fats can be introduced
      Some says healthy fats
      But then some say to go easy on fats?
      I would for example on a weekend like a rasher of bacon with an egg.... or maybe only after a week in?
      As a rule in my life I don't do fatty foods and avoid anything deep fried so my fats will come from maybe bacon, cheeses, yogurt and avo.....
      I think last time nuts got me into trouble so I will take that one easy...start out with seeds first and then see what nuts do
      One of my go to breakfasts would be a smoothie with fat-free yogurt.. My lactose intolerance cope Ok with Yogurt, cheese I have to limit


    STARCHES and SUBSTITUTES
    • As I think with most of us starches is our downfall
      As I have said before, I have go-to supplier supplying wraps, noodles, lasgnesheets all made from vegetables with a carn count of below 2gms per serving...so that is already a part of my normal and it will fit into P3
      However... what is the take on almond etc flours.... They are pretty high in calories and medium ish on the carbs...I am a keen baker and I experiment often.... but don't want to if it will get me into trouble


    ALCOHOL
    • Interesting thing is that I have always been under the impression that wine has more carbs than spirits... yet after some research wines have few calories, much less than I thought ant per glass very similar calories....
      Even the so called low calorie wines are very similar to regular wines. so might as well enjoy the good stuff....
      But is this a question of which one you can refrain from having a 2nd or third?
      Also read that he you drink and eat at the same time...Your body will FIRST burn the alcohol, and then if extra enery is required, it will burn the food you have eaten
      So my thought is.... If you know you are going to go out... have dinner first.. and wait 1-2 hours before consuming alcohol?


    GENERAL STUFF
    • Ok so with P3 we are prone to eat out more away from home and I have logging MyFitnesspal on my phone.... so I am going to keep a small notebook to recorded everything I eat
      I know sweet things will be tempting but I always keep sugar free jelly at hand
      All these sugar free sweets in the shops gives me the runs, so I will stay away from that
      Still eating 6 servings a day (Some prefer the intermittent fasting route)
      Not incorporating stuff that is not a part of your life, unless it is new and helpful in the long run
      Water water water!
      If I am going to be drinking any alcohol.... I can have it, provided I have but enough calories to compensate for it - fair trade I think


    'Anyone who can add to this list or any other ideas?
    I've been contemplating this quite a bit myself and have come to various conclusions as well. While I've read online about the importance of gradually increasing calories and being careful about bringing in too much fat too soon, I've also read from some more trusted sources that it's equally important--if not more so--to not make the mistake of restricting calories because that can set you up for major problems.

    I know we're coming from different places and histories, so of course, please take my plan for what it is: MY plan. While I'm petrified of regaining, I also really want to use HCG to cure a lifelong dieting mentality and issues with emotional eating. So, I'm sticking to Simeons' protocol and heeding my doc's advice: no calorie counting and strictly no sugars and no starches and no dairy or alcohol for the first three weeks with daily weighing to make sure I don't fluctuate more than two pounds up or down from LIW (thanks for the clarification on that FlirtyFlo and Leez--I had been wondering about that too!). I'm also going to stay away from nuts--except two brazil nuts a day for selenium per doc's orders --because they tend to cause problems for me. I'm going to continue with a mindful shortened eating window, because IF is working really well for me right now--though I don't plan to do it forever and will continue to monitor how I feel. I will, however, shift more toward a Whole30 style template for my meals, including a palm-sized portion of meat (might stay away from pork for a little while, because it can cause me problems), plenty of non-starchy veggies (and a greater variety), and a dollop of fat, which could include avocado, homemade mayo, olive oil, olives, ghee, coconut milk or flakes, or just the fat that's already in the foods, like egg yolks or fattier cuts of meat. I'm also going to stay away from most fruits except berries and apples for the first three weeks, mostly because they're not in season where I live.

    After the first three weeks of stabilization, I'm going to continue with avoiding sugars and starches and dairy and alcohol, though I may start to allow more nuts and some starchier veggies now and again, like winter squashes and potatoes of all kinds, but I'll be careful with portions and be aware of what my fruit intake is like on those days. I may also allow myself a glass of wine on a special occasion (my birthday, T-Gives, Christmas, and New Year's are all falling during this time frame!), but as FlirtyFlo mentioned, I'll have it with food. And I'll avoid starches and fruits on days I choose to imbibe as well as limit myself to ONE glass. Likely wine. I have had good success with organic low-sugar wines in the past, but since then, my state stopped allowing shipment of alcohol through the mail and I haven't been able to order it from California, unfortunately. I'll need to do some research about where I might be able to get it now. Because it really did make a difference.

    Then after the new year, we'll see how it goes. I would love to try reintroducing beans and legumes, because I love them, especially in colder months, and black eyed peas are a special New Year's tradition that I particularly enjoy. Though I also may end up doing another round of HCG with y'all. It really just depends on where I land and how I feel. HCG is showing me just how metabolically disordered I've been and that it may actually be possible to get down to a truly healthy weight for my height I never dreamed possible. I'm about a pound and a half right now from the highest normal BMI weight for my height, and it's lower than I've ever been able to maintain as an adult. And I still have a week or two to go on this round. All my clothes fit. I feel like a new person. I'll just need to see how it goes and whether it feels like maintaining whatever my LIW turns out to be is the best thing to do for a while or if I'm ready to keep going and see if a weight within the 125-135 range might be possible and sustainable for me.

    As FlirtyFlo mentioned, winter actually feels like a good time to do this--not to mention incredibly supportive during the pandemic and a likely return to quarantine--as I'm hunkered down at home and not terribly social anyway. It would be amazing for once to re-emerge in spring and into summer without anxiety about my body. Throwing off that anxiety is at least as important to me as how my body looks and feels. I'm realizing how interconnected it all has been my entire life. Ultimately, what I'm looking for is freedom. And I'm just not sure yet how that will look or when I will know it's time to stay in maintenance or keep going with another round of HCG. I'll talk to my doc about it, too, because there are implications for my thyroid and meds and my body shifts and changes.

  11. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Leez View Post
    That is just wrong.

    From the manuscript in the section titled "skipping a meal" which is the section on P3.

    That clearly gives the guideline of what LIW is. (Last Injection Weight). Different acronyms are used, but the L always stands for last, not lowest.

    Its not unusual to lose more during those 72 hours without HCG, but almost no one gets to keep any of those losses. So making your LIW lower just sets you up for problems as you try to stabilize in P3 as you rightly assessed.

    And there is no extra shot to take after the 72 hours. Wonder where that idea came from.

    Boo to NuImage for that misinformation. A good reminder to always need to check the manuscript for ourselves.

    I am really so weary of all the docs offices making money off this protocol Just read and follow P&I. This is exactly how confusion happens. They do this and change the protocol. Just ugh.

  12. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by FlirtyFlo View Post
    P3 can be interpreted in so many ways...so many conflicting articles and opinions... I feel like I am right back as square one after each article....

    So to sum up what I think is close to protocol

    • Start by increasing calories gradually
      This does not mean you have to count calories
      although I will, because I want to make sure I know where I fall off the rails and also dedicated myself that if looking at a plate of food To know roughly what my intake would be ...going forward
      but to start out with 800 ish and every day increase it a bit more and see how the scale reacts
      This is where I will probably include a good quality Protein powder shake daily
      Increased calories should come for Increasing Proteins and eating more vegetables and fruits
      However no high sugar fruits
      What is the general take on Calories week 1,2 and 3?


    FATS
    • This is where it is confusing
      Simeons says in the absence of Starches Fats can be introduced
      Some says healthy fats
      But then some say to go easy on fats?
      I would for example on a weekend like a rasher of bacon with an egg.... or maybe only after a week in?
      As a rule in my life I don't do fatty foods and avoid anything deep fried so my fats will come from maybe bacon, cheeses, yogurt and avo.....
      I think last time nuts got me into trouble so I will take that one easy...start out with seeds first and then see what nuts do
      One of my go to breakfasts would be a smoothie with fat-free yogurt.. My lactose intolerance cope Ok with Yogurt, cheese I have to limit


    STARCHES and SUBSTITUTES
    • As I think with most of us starches is our downfall
      As I have said before, I have go-to supplier supplying wraps, noodles, lasgnesheets all made from vegetables with a carn count of below 2gms per serving...so that is already a part of my normal and it will fit into P3
      However... what is the take on almond etc flours.... They are pretty high in calories and medium ish on the carbs...I am a keen baker and I experiment often.... but don't want to if it will get me into trouble


    ALCOHOL
    • Interesting thing is that I have always been under the impression that wine has more carbs than spirits... yet after some research wines have few calories, much less than I thought ant per glass very similar calories....
      Even the so called low calorie wines are very similar to regular wines. so might as well enjoy the good stuff....
      But is this a question of which one you can refrain from having a 2nd or third?
      Also read that he you drink and eat at the same time...Your body will FIRST burn the alcohol, and then if extra enery is required, it will burn the food you have eaten
      So my thought is.... If you know you are going to go out... have dinner first.. and wait 1-2 hours before consuming alcohol?


    GENERAL STUFF
    • Ok so with P3 we are prone to eat out more away from home and I have logging MyFitnesspal on my phone.... so I am going to keep a small notebook to recorded everything I eat
      I know sweet things will be tempting but I always keep sugar free jelly at hand
      All these sugar free sweets in the shops gives me the runs, so I will stay away from that
      Still eating 6 servings a day (Some prefer the intermittent fasting route)
      Not incorporating stuff that is not a part of your life, unless it is new and helpful in the long run
      Water water water!
      If I am going to be drinking any alcohol.... I can have it, provided I have but enough calories to compensate for it - fair trade I think


    'Anyone who can add to this list or any other ideas?
    I usually ditch the fruit in P3 and stick to protein and veggies, adding avocado, bacon, butter. Then in week two I add dairy. Week 3 nuts, but for me too, snacking on nuts gets me into trouble Can't have more than 1/4 cup a day. I pretty much use my keto macros for P3. On keto, I have no fear of fats at all. They are pretty self-restricting. I don't add any extra. Just what comes with higher fat foods and what is used for cooking. I don't count calories when keto.

    I will need to adjust things in P4. Some wine, some sweet potato. Not sure what to do wrt calories etc. I think I will just add some sweet potato for dinners at first and see how things go. I know I can't have things like bagels as they will just make me eat. I will try some things though since I will have another round. So I think my plan will be to be higher carb this P4 and see what my body and the scale does. Maybe even a bagel.

    One of my favorite treats is Rebel Creamerie keto ice cream. Made with cream as opposed to milk. It is so good. But I need to see how my body really reacts to erythritol/sugar alcohols this P4 first too.

    I don't drink enough alcohol to worry about it but I am going to see how my body reacts to that as well. So all in all, I know what to do in P3, and P4 will be an exploration of new things and things I want to look at more closely.

    For simplicity, I may just end up sticking to what works for me: keto, with an allowance of carbs as a one-weekend-day treat. Been doing this for 10 years. I just needed a reset after Covid splurges.

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