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Thread: Calorie limit in P4 and beyond?

  1. #1
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    Calorie limit in P4 and beyond?

    Good Morning Leez,

    I start P4 on Sunday and do not want to start creeping up. I know it is important to eat breakfast and to eat to hunger and stop with eating when I feel full. The big questions are:

    Is there a formula you like to calculate the number of calories when should be eating to maintain my current weight? Because maybe I just start to eat too much food overall.

    Also, if there is anything you can think of that worked for others in maintaining their weight, please share!

    Thank you!
    Warmly,
    RK
    [/url]

  2. #2
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    I think its more about managing your food volume, actually. Everyone has a pretty constant amount of volumne of food that they need to be satisfied. How that volume is reached is where you can focus on making smart choices. Calories should naturally fall in line. But most of us need to stay vigilant to keep veggies in a high proportion---I find that the biggest challenge.

    Even if you don't change the volume of the food you eat when you enter P4, you could be skewing the proportion of starches to the other nutrients too quickly or too heavily. That's where things can go wrong. That, and forgetting about the only directive Dr. Simeons gave in his post-P2 instructions: that when starches and fats are combined, things can get quickly out of hand. So there is a mindfulness there that is needed going forward. If you think about it...those things that we consider the most fattening are starch/fat combos: donuts, cookies cakes and pies, pizza, french fries. But even healthy, whole food versions can bring that starch/fat whammy into play.

    The testing that we do in P4 is not so much about sensitivities as about the portion sizes of healthy starches we can add back into our daily food lists. So you test the things you want to be able to eat to see just how much your body will handle at your new lower setpoint weight.

    I find that the easiest plan for me is the Trim Healthy Mama guidelines. The fat/starch separation is built in and the focus is on whole, unprocessed foods. You can pretty much make it your own from there. I think the key is treating them as guidelines, and then figure out how your own body responds. I have found I can tolerate a bit more fat in the starch meals than THM recommends, but I don't push it beyond that little bit extra. The same with fat fueled meals. I just don't have full-on mixes very often.
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    Wow Leez that is so Helpful!

    I honestly think (in the interest of full disclosure too) that I never paid attention to the fat starch separation in previous rounds. As a lover of fruit, This is one area that I am working on now. Today for example I had an omelet with mushrooms and some cheese and a tiny bit of butter, coffee and a tablespoon of foamed whole milk (usually I drink it black) but no fruit and I feel fuller than I ever have by ditching the mornin fruit. I will look at the trim Healthy mama books. I agree that keeping veggies high is important, and a challenge!

    One amazing truth I learned from my previous rounds is that when I have sweets I feel hungry again. I call it false hunger. So if I have dessert I always tell myself that is the last thing I am going to eat, and really think about the size.

    Interesting about food volume. I can also see that as being true. Apparently I need to fall in love with veggies--easier in the winter since I love soups, and I always seem to make Grammy's Detox Smoothie...

    Thank you again! Hope you have a fun weekend.
    Fondly,
    RK
    [/url]

  4. #4
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    The fruit thing can be a little tricky... the low glycemic fruits (berries and kiwi) are fine to have with a fat-fuel meal when kept to about a cup serving. The others are best used combined with just protein and just a tiny bit of fat. You may find you can have strawberries or raspberries with your breakfast and not get the same hunger responses you were mentioning.

    Something to experiment with.

    I think my weekend will be spent staying indoors. We don't get a break in the heat until next week. Till then, heat indexes are triple digit.

    My favorite breakfast smoothie is one I learned to make when I was doing hormone detox from FMD (fast metabolism diet). Its a peeled, de-seeded small grapefruit , handful of spring greens , 1/4 of a raw beet, 1 T. coconut oil, and 1-2 T. sunflower seeds blended up with sweetener, a little water and ice and pink salt.

    The grapefruit flavor was my favorite part, but you can use an orange instead. The recipe calls for spinach or kale, but I prefer the spring greens. Also with thyroid issues, eating raw kale is not a good choice for me since its cruciferous.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview

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    HI Leez,

    Wow I think my post went somewhere else? it's my day ha ha so I am re-typing.

    That smoothie sounds delicious. I also avoid raw cruciferous veggies , spinach and soy due to thyroid issues. Also, I have not found a protein powder that does not upset my stomach, but again I never looked very hard. DO you have one you like?

    I will try the berries. I just need some new tools here.

    Hope the heat breaks soon! We are also looking at a hot dry summer here...

    Thank you again!

    Fondly,
    RK

    Thank you for your help. IT is so wonderful to be at this weight! I intend to stay here!
    [/url]

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    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    Yes, you added it to a thyroid thread. I removed the duplicate.

    As for protein powders, I generally use collagen or unsweetened peanut flour. But if I'm using a whey protein powder, I look for whey protein isolate (not concentrate), cross filtered, cold processed and grass-fed. Those that have problems with whey protein can get the same creamy/poofiness from using an eggwhite protein powder. If you haven't tried that and are ok with eggs, it might be an option.

    I agree! Being at goal is the best.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview

    A full review of my experience with DietDoc and how the round progressed can be found here: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog is here. If you've found my posts helpful, please consider using this DietDoc link on your next HCG order. (your forum discount still applies)

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

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    RK and Leez, Right there with you on P4 onset. Actually today is P3 day 21. I guess you could say, tho, P4 began a day early for me. Had dinner with Hubbs side of family lastt nite. And think Leez is right on the money (per usual), P4 eating is prob more about portion control of starches, sugars than other things. Last nite I had grilled steak (not a huge portion, but enough to feel satisfied), salad with the dressing she had there, 1 heaping spoonful of mashed potatoes, fresh green beans cooked on top of stove with olive oil and some kind of veggie rub, cooked crisp tender, and 1 chocolate cookie, and drank one Coke Zero (which was so good). Doubt a whole lot of calories, but fillled me up. I could've eaten more--but chose not to. When I got home, I fixed myself 3 celery stalks with sugar free peanut butter, because I was really busy, on the go yesterday, and don't think I had enough calories. Took wine to dinner, but chose not to drink. Anyway, I laid in bed this morning, thinking, bet there will be uptick on scales, but actually was a .4 drop. Yay!

    So, Leez, you're right, think P4 may be an experiment, testing how much of the sugars and starches we can eat and maintain. P3 again today, unless at birthday party tonite, I decide to do a little like last night. There will be food, and it will be good--the friends giving are awesome grillers! We'll see. Good luck Rk, and thanks Leez for your wisdom and knowledge! You are amazing.

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    Hi Leez,

    Hope you are having a great Monday. What are your thoughts about figuring out your total calorie limit in P4? Do you think it is just about food volume and not to think in terms of calories? Do you do that and should I track calories for a while?

    Thank you,
    RK
    [/url]

  9. #9
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    Yes, its a great Monday...finally a break in the heat. We are in the 60's this morning, and it has been a joy to open up the windows and get some fresh air in the house. The cat is loving it too. He has spent these 100 degree days longingly sitting on window sills, hoping they would open up. He loves to visually track birds and squirrels and smell all the smells.

    My aim is to pay no attention to calories. I think it sets up a trap where you then try to control calories instead of listening to your body. Its pretty easy to look at a meal (or the whole day) and see if you have a good balance going. So that is my check point.

    If you find yourself gaining, then it can be worth checking your calories at the end of the day....but mostly to see if you are getting enough of them. Consistently undereating will slow down your metabolism, and it is important to avoid that. Most women who are not athletes should be in the loose neighborhood of 2000 calories, maybe a little less as we age. If you are in the group of mindful eaters who try to eat whole foods and avoid processed ones, it can sometimes be hard to get there.

    I think its better to look at your daily intake and work toward a goal of getting half your total food volume from vegetables. If you can achieve that ratio, then its very unlikely you will overdo calories. I always find mine works out better if I purpose to have breakfast. Otherwise, I get behind and tend to undereat for the day.

    It could be good to track your calories (at the end of the day so as not to influence your food choices) for a few days to establish a baseline of your body's satisfaction level. Then if you run into issues later, you will have that information to help you figure out any corrections.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview

    A full review of my experience with DietDoc and how the round progressed can be found here: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog is here. If you've found my posts helpful, please consider using this DietDoc link on your next HCG order. (your forum discount still applies)

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

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    Thank you Leez!

    Gosh that is so very helpful. I think looking at calories does tend to make me undereat. I really appreciate your thorough answer so I can fully understand the thought process. I just really do not want to re-gain!

    I am so glad the heat has diminished in your area. My daughter fosters cats and kittens, I love to help her!

    Take care.
    Warmly,
    RK

    Thank you again,
    [/url]

  11. #11
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    It is worth mentioning that you can do everything right, but if your thyroid or cortisol is not controlled or you have chronic inflammation you may still have to battle weight gain. It's not fair. There should be a reward for doing everything right. But sometimes, life is just not fair.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview

    A full review of my experience with DietDoc and how the round progressed can be found here: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog is here. If you've found my posts helpful, please consider using this DietDoc link on your next HCG order. (your forum discount still applies)

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

  12. #12
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    HI Leez,

    That is a really good point. I have just been diagnosed with osteoporosis which is really gotten me quite concerned! Both my parents have it, and have suffered fractures and are stooped over. I took calcium supplements in my 20s and 30s. So Bad genes trumps supplements and the fact that I have always done some exercise.... But is is a real worry and gosh I need a new doctor. My doctor seems too overwhelmed and overextended to be very useful except to put me on Boniva.

    I think my thyroid is controlled, although my TSH is really suppressed (I am not really concerned about TSH) my T3 and T4 are good. With Hashimoto's that control can change suddenly for no good reason and all of a sudden bam--- weight gain.

    I have never monitored my cortisol. What tests do you do and how have you controlled yours? I know cortisol goes up with stress.

    What supplements do you take that you feel help you? I really like that cucurmin/tumeric from merivia and I just ordered some of the magnesium supplement.

    Thanks Leez!

    You are really so smart about all this! I appreciate your insight. I just got the Trim Healthy Mama books so I am excited to look at those.!

    Warmly,
    RK
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