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Thread: Thyroid panels are in. Have some questions before I talk to the doc

  1. #1
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    Thyroid panels are in. Have some questions before I talk to the doc

    Just got the results of my thyroid panel.

    Here is a comparison of the last 3 tests (about a year apart) Out of range is in bold.

    Test July/2014 Sept/2015 Mar/2016 Range
    Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 140 79 77 <9 IU mL
    T3, TOTAL - 101 90 76-181 ng/dL
    T3, FREE 2.6 2.9 2.8 2.3 - 4.2 pg/mL
    T4, FREE - 1.2 1.3 0.8 - 1.8 ng/dL
    TSH 1.17 1.28 0.77 0.40 - 4.50 mIU/L
    Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 93 - 132 14 - 73 nmol/L
    Thyroglobulin Antibodies - 2 - IU mL < or = 1
    Thyroglobulin - 17.8 - ng/mL 2.8 - 40.9


    Last fall, I switched brands from

    Armour Thyroid 90 mg
    to WP-Thyroid 81mg (Formerly Westhroid)

    The reason I switched is because I became allergic to the Armour. When they replaced my prescription, I presumed they replaced it with the same strength? of the new brand, since its made in different potency versions than the Armour, but I don't know that's true.

    I have noticed that my body temp went down about a half degree about a month after the med change, so I'm thinking its probably a bit less potent. Other than that, its seems the same (only without the hives and other allergic responses. I think it was the filler. Armour Thyroid currently contains maize starch--which is, of course, CORN, my biggest sensitivity. ).

    I think my optimum T3 FREE should be around 3.3, so my thought is to ask if they can bump the dose up, but I'm not sure how much to ask for. The situation is that my doc is willing to work with me, but to him...everything looks fine in the T3 FREE department, so he is going by my recommendations so far. On my recent visit, I gave him some stuff from the stopthethyroid madness site on correlating tests to dosing. Hopefully, he read it and doesn't think its wacky.

    Colleen, what kind of bump up would you ask for in this case? I'm about to run out of meds, so I need to ask pretty soon.

    A further wrinkle....

    The other situation going on is that both antibody tests show high levels, and one of the things that could indicate is thyroid tumor. He thought he felt some nodules, so he sent me for a thyroid ultrasound. I don't have the results yet.

    I had Graves Disease decades ago, and have been in remission, so the high antibody results have always mystified me. The endo that treated my condition told me that I would always have high antibodies after having Graves Disease, but no one else has ever been able to confirm that. I am always left wondering if its just showing the residual effect of the original disease, or if my thyroid is actually currently attacking me. You can see by the gaps that no one has been serious tracking this stuff in my testing, and I've just recently learned more about what to ask for.

    Getting anyone to listen to my concerns has been difficult (my functional doctor thought I was fine), and I finally got this doctor to look at my questions seriously when I showed him the comparison test chart above. So he is exploring the tumor idea currently with the ultrasound. I know the antibody results also could be interpreted as Hashimoto's, but until I get a satisfactory answer the the Graves connection, I'm not sure I should accept that diagnosis.


    So that's my story. Extra bonus points for reading through the whole thing. Thanks for any wisdom you can offer.
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  2. #2
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    You're probably not converting your T4 to T3 very well for one thing. Since it correlates to the switch in thyroid, what about asking your doctor to switch you to a combination of T4 and T3? The others are still porcine based and it's not unusual to react to them. Then your doctor could prescribe the T3 you need with a little more precision.

    I'm going to do a little more research and email you back in a bit. We're still in Hawaii and I'm being dragged out of the house for shave ice. LOL But I'll be back soon.
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  3. #3
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    I'm confused. I thought the porcine things like Armour, NatureThroid and my WPThyroid were already both T3 and T4? I'm not reacting to the WP version. I'm pretty sure that my problem with the Armour was the maize starch filler. I started reacting when my prescription was filled in a different shape than normal (oval instead of round). I postulate that either it was a new manufacturer, or the formulation had changed, precipitating my allergic reaction.

    What should the T4 free level be?

    I'm trying hard to understand all this, but a lot of it is still mysterious to me. I don't understand the reverse T3 thing at all, for instance. Should I be having that test done as well?

    The other confusing thing is that I feel fine. In fact, I feel better now than I have in many years. I have no hypo symptoms that I can isolate.

    But now I'm also wondering if my hot flashes are not menopause related at all, but maybe caused by my thyroid.


    Your shaved ice outing sounds fun! I hear it's a popular island thing. ^_^
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview
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  4. #4
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    It does have both but you can't really alter how much you get of each. The percentages of each are set because it's ground up pig thyroid. The dr recently switched me to a combo because I started suddenly converting T4 to T3 better than I ever have. And I wasn't really upset about trying it because I have always felt absolutely awesome on straight Cytomel (T3.)

    You know what I'm going to say about your antibodies before I ever say it. I've been trying to get you to cut out gluten ever since I've known you. LOL I know you don't want to. I get that, really I do. I was there for a while myself. But you don't ever really "get over" and autoimmune disease and once you have one, you're much more likely to have another. The only way to prevent that from happening is to eliminate gluten and other likely drivers. If you really want to have a definitive issue, get a stool test from Enterolabs and see what is driving it. They test for the common allergens that drive the inflammation like gluten, dairy, soy, nightshades, etc. I'd have to see a test from them proving you don't need to eliminate gluten to believe it. You CAN reverse that inflammation with diet--I know because I've done it. Mine is now in the normal range which is super exciting!

    Optimal free T3 is about 3.4-3.5 and optimal free T4 is about 1.5 so you're suboptimal on both, but your free T3 is worse than your free T4 which is why I think you're not converting well. A reverse T3 test would help figure that out. I suspect your progesterone is low and that's affecting your conversion. I wanted to do some research on your high SHBG levels, but that appears to be because of taking thyroid meds. Hashi's can cause nodules on your thyroid. It's great that you're feeling great, but with your history you always have to be aware of what's happening that you aren't noticing because all of a sudden, the fatigue can set in, the hair can start falling out, etc. Your hot flashes could be related to your thyroid, by the way.

    Personally if you don't want to switch to taking both Synthroid and Cytomel, I'd ask the doctor to increase your meds by a quarter grain then retest in 6 weeks and see how your levels look. You may need another half grain. And get your progesterone levels checked.
    My expert Hcg Diet advice is based specifically on the original Simeons Protocol. Grammy's personal protocol:Grammy's Hcg Diet Protocol
    Grammy's author website: ColleenCoble.com

    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

  5. #5
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    So. I looked at the stool & saliva testing I had done in 2012. I know this is 4 years old and I think this may have been taken before I noticed I was sensitive to eggs. But I already knew at that point that corn was a problem. For what it's worth, here is what the allergen part showed:

    Milk (Casein) Ab. SIgA (Saliva) Negative

    Soy (Protein) Ab. SIgA (Saliva) Negative

    Egg (Albumen) Ab. SIgA (Saliva) Negative

    Gliadin Ab, SIgA (Saliva) 6 (Negative) Range: Borderline: 13-15 U/ml - Positive: > 15 U/ml
    (gliandins: polypeptides found in grain glutens)

    Fecal PH: 6.4 Normal (Range: 5 - 8.5)

    Bacterial Stool CU. No pathogens detected. Moderate mixed gram negative and positive rods/flora.

    Functional medicine doc said those tests showed "all is good" and no sensitivities.

    You are absolutely right that I don't want to give up my bread. But yes, I should get serious about eliminating gluten. (Begins tough love self-talk....) Resolution: I am going to order the Sami's sourdough and see if it works for me. If so, the change should be a lot easier. I seem to do well on the Ezekiel sprouted grain breads at least from a weight gain perspective. But I have no other bread currently that I know I can eat safely. And for me, a day without bread is like a day without sunshine. (And I am not being dramatic either--its an important part of my eating happiness.) Eliminating dairy would be almost as hard. Maybe harder, because I depend on it a lot for a protein source. And, it's so much harder to face giving up things you love when you aren't motivated by feeling bad.

    I wonder if I need to buy gluten free oats? Do the traces in the regular kind matter if you are not celiac? I know I'm not, because I had that test too.

    Thanks so much for the dosing recommendation. I think I want to try the adjustment in the porcine thyroid first. I've had so many bad reactions to pharmaceuticals that I'm loathe to try any more of them. I also have no confidence yet in my doctors ability to figure this out. Maybe he'll surprise me though and read up on this stuff. He spent a lot of time with me this visit explaining my test results as he saw them. And he did say he would read my print-outs. He basically said that if I did have Hashi's, I didn't need to worry about it, because I'm already treating it with the thyroid med. He didn't mention any other treatment measures (like diet choices) so I'm pretty sure he is going by conventional medical precedent.

    I will ask for the reverse T3 test next time.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview
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    My recent HCG round was with DietDoc. Our site owner has generously arranged for me to earn a small fee if you use my DietDoc or Nu Image Medical link to order your Hcg and supplies. (All HDI site discounts and coupons apply.) A full review of my experience and how the round progressed: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog here

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

  6. #6
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    The one you had tested saliva and not how your body was processing it. But even the saliva one was borderline. All the sensitivity ones seem to have been saliva, which again isn't optimal for really figuring out how your body is processing the food.

    I think you will like the Sami's sourdough bread. I was the same way about bread by the way. And maybe dairy won't be a problem, but I gave it up for several years and found some good subs. It can be done if you have to. I just don't want to see you end up with lupus or MS!
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    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

  7. #7
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    Gliadin Ab, SIgA (Saliva) 6 (Negative) Range: Borderline: 13-15 U/ml - Positive: > 15 U/ml
    I read it that way at first too, and thought "How did I miss that?" but it really does say its negative since the result was a 6, and borderline is listed at 13-15.

    But, yeah, before I checked the results I was thinking the sensitivity reports were from the stool test, so I accept that its not definitive being from the saliva test.

    I just sent a note through the medical portal asking for the thyroid med dose change. Before I move ahead on anything else though, I need to find out what my thyroid scan shows and what that means. The results might change my priorities.

    I appreciate your caring....I really do. And I know you are right.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview
    Please note that any suggestions I make are based on the Original Protocol.

    My recent HCG round was with DietDoc. Our site owner has generously arranged for me to earn a small fee if you use my DietDoc or Nu Image Medical link to order your Hcg and supplies. (All HDI site discounts and coupons apply.) A full review of my experience and how the round progressed: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog here

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

  8. #8
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    Oh you're right! I read it wrong. But I'd like to see you get the stool one. It's the only really accurate one. I'll be interested in the results of your scan so make sure you update me! Hashi's is known to cause nodules.

    One article by thyroid.org: We do not know what causes most thyroid nodules but they are extremely common. By age 60, about one-half of all people have a thyroid nodule that can be found either through examination or with imaging. Fortunately, over 90% of such nodules are benign. Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, which is the most common cause of hypothyroidism (see Hypothyroidism brochure), is associated with an increased risk of thyroid nodules. Iodine deficiency, which is very uncommon in the United States, is also known to cause thyroid nodules.
    My expert Hcg Diet advice is based specifically on the original Simeons Protocol. Grammy's personal protocol:Grammy's Hcg Diet Protocol
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    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

  9. #9
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    Thanks for that quote. I thought that nodules were usually benign, but its nice to know its as high as 90%. I don't think I've had them very long. I'm sure the doc did the palpation check last September during my regular exam and didn't feel anything then.

    Interesting about the iodine connection. I've specifically avoided taking extra iodine because I was told that too much of it could bring me out of Graves remission.

    I'll check into the stool scan and be sure to update you once I know more.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview
    Please note that any suggestions I make are based on the Original Protocol.

    My recent HCG round was with DietDoc. Our site owner has generously arranged for me to earn a small fee if you use my DietDoc or Nu Image Medical link to order your Hcg and supplies. (All HDI site discounts and coupons apply.) A full review of my experience and how the round progressed: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog here

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

  10. #10
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    Doctors try to scare you with that iodine thing and autoimmune disease. The real problem is low selenium when taking iodine. Here's an interesting article about it: http://hypothyroidmom.com/a-differen...s-thyroiditis/
    My expert Hcg Diet advice is based specifically on the original Simeons Protocol. Grammy's personal protocol:Grammy's Hcg Diet Protocol
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    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

  11. #11
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    I'm interested in reading that. It was actually my functional medicine doctor that warned me away from iodine supplements. Hmmm. Maybe another reason that I'm glad I fired her.

    Although I haven't supplemented with iodine, I've been using kelp granules fairly regularly as seasoning since that time I spend on THE PLAN. I also take selenium whenever I eat tuna, but I don't take it as a regular supplement. I'm at least getting little bits of both.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview
    Please note that any suggestions I make are based on the Original Protocol.

    My recent HCG round was with DietDoc. Our site owner has generously arranged for me to earn a small fee if you use my DietDoc or Nu Image Medical link to order your Hcg and supplies. (All HDI site discounts and coupons apply.) A full review of my experience and how the round progressed: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog here

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

  12. #12
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    I think adding some occasional iodine and selenium to my regimen as well as religiously taking sublingual methyl B12 is the core reason I'm suddenly converting my T4 to T3 better. My free T3 got up to nearly 6 on the exact same dose of Armour so that's when the doctor had to switch to a mix she could tweak better for me.
    My expert Hcg Diet advice is based specifically on the original Simeons Protocol. Grammy's personal protocol:Grammy's Hcg Diet Protocol
    Grammy's author website: ColleenCoble.com

    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

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