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Thread: October 2018 - Overcomers

  1. #193
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    Good morning TACL group!

    Tracy - I wondered how you were going to survive a catered lunch from a place with BBQ in the name. So sorry it bit you. My favorite coleslaw of all time is KFC. I KNOW there is a ton of sugar in it, but it sure is tasty! I'm sure it contributed to the 50 extra lbs I was toting around.

    Baggy yoga pants? I would have to be the size of a toothpick to achieve that! Good that yours are loose though. NSV!

    Lynne - Lowest weight in 15 years! YAY! Hoping it is locked in for you!

    AFM: TESS says the same again today. I guess that's stable? Unfortunately, still right at 2 pounds above LDW. I am not mentally ready for a correction day yet. My plan at this point is to just take it as my body adjusting back to not being in losing mode. Maybe next time I will do an additional 24 hours of VLCD before P3 to help "lock it in". Remind me, OK?

    Have a stable and great Thursday!

    2016 SW: 186.2 GW: 115 HT: 5'3"
    Pre-HCG SW: 175
    Fake drops round:158.7 February 2017
    R1 SW: 158.7 LDW: 152.5 March 2017
    R2 SW: 151.3 LDW: 144.0 May 2017
    R3 SW: 135.9 LDW: 130.9 October 2017
    R4 SW: 137.0 LDW: 132.0 March 2018
    R5 SW: 142.6 LDW: 132.1 November 2018
    LinderLou

  2. #194
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    I wish a few more days of VLCD would do that, Linda, but by the end of P2 I just can't stand another dayof eating chicken breast! What I might be able to make work, is a week of P3 eating with HCG - as in a reshaping round. I am at my lowest weight in a long time, but my measurements still aren't there. I read we still have "normal" and visceral fat, some of which can be lost with calorie deficit , over time. Just a thought . . .

    Happy Thursday -

    Lynne

  3. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by gz9gjg View Post
    I wish a few more days of VLCD would do that, Linda, but by the end of P2 I just can't stand another day! What I might be able to make work, is a week of P3 eating with HCG - as in a reshaping round. I am at my lowest weight in a long time, but my measurements still aren't there. I read we still have "normal" and visceral fat, some of which can be lost with calorie deficit , over time. Just a thought . . .
    Hi Lynne,

    I thought that eating fats (P3) while on hcg was really, really bad... and that is why there are planned interruptions. My thoughts on doing an extra 24 hours of VLCD is that I can do anything for one more day, even P2. I was having a very hard time with the food by the end of this round too, but one foot in front of the other got me through it.

    As for losing what kind of fat without hcg, I can only tell you my firsthand experience with that. Way back in February 2017 I did about 20 days of 500 VLCD with fake drops. I was starving, but losing weight. About 20 days in I did a bunch more research and realized that I had been bamboozled. I ordered RX hcg and started P2 again. I ended up only losing about 6 more lbs, BUT about day 3, I could FEEL the fat mobilizing. My thighs got skinny (I have always carried a lot of weight there), my face filled back in and back fat disappeared. I believe that by starving myself on 500 calories, my body was going after the "normal" fat and when hcg was introduced, my body went after the visceral fat to replace the normal fat. Between all of that, I went from 175 to 152.5, -22.5 pounds and reshaped drastically.

    For me, losing weight with a calorie deficit has never really worked. That's why I am here and still trying to get out of the stubborn 130s. My plan for now is to continue on and stabilize until my 6 months is up and to give it another try to drop the last 15/20 pounds and extra spare tire. I am VERY happy with the reshaping and feel so much healthier than I have in a long time. So, I guess I will just stick with the program

    2016 SW: 186.2 GW: 115 HT: 5'3"
    Pre-HCG SW: 175
    Fake drops round:158.7 February 2017
    R1 SW: 158.7 LDW: 152.5 March 2017
    R2 SW: 151.3 LDW: 144.0 May 2017
    R3 SW: 135.9 LDW: 130.9 October 2017
    R4 SW: 137.0 LDW: 132.0 March 2018
    R5 SW: 142.6 LDW: 132.1 November 2018
    LinderLou

  4. #196
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    Hi Linda,

    A reshaping round is where you eat like a PI but use HCG to lose abnormal fat deposits without neccessarily losing total weight. It's something Dr Simeons described in one of the chapters of pounds and inches, called "The Emaciated Lady"; and also in "The Duration of Treatment" where he discusses how, after the "statistically normal weight" was reached before the end of the 23 injections in a round, he says he put patients on 800 to 1000 calories diet while finishing the 23 injections. Dr Simeons doesn't describe the 800 to 1000 calories diet he used; others on this forum inferred it was like a PI, or like P3.

    Dr Simeons said a patient who has lost all their "abnormal fat" during VLCD then began to lose "normal fat", would become very hungry. He would increase the daily calories until the 23 injections were completed rather than stop early; mentions allowing "an extra apple, 150 grams meat, 2 or 3 extra bread sticks" for the last few days of VLCD. He stated "normal fat" lost with HCG would quickly be regained; and he believed the minimum of 23 injections were needed to do the hormonal reset. So he avoided "normal fat" loss by allowing the extra calories.

    As to fat NOT causing the HCG diet to become ineffective, I am an example: I ate 30 g fat daily; continued to use my regular moisturizers; and took my horse-pill fish oil supplements. I lost more this round than I did during every other round except R1; and I saw more reshaping this round, too.

    My normal ketogenic diet is so high fat (75 to 90 grams daily) that having the 30 g fat during P2 was a big reduction, and apparently didn't interfere with my weight loss. Because I now "run" mostly on ketones for energy, having less fat would have risked me going back to depending on glucose.

    Anyhow, that's my opinion and experience.

    Lynne

  5. #197
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    Thanks Lynne - I will go back and read that!

    2016 SW: 186.2 GW: 115 HT: 5'3"
    Pre-HCG SW: 175
    Fake drops round:158.7 February 2017
    R1 SW: 158.7 LDW: 152.5 March 2017
    R2 SW: 151.3 LDW: 144.0 May 2017
    R3 SW: 135.9 LDW: 130.9 October 2017
    R4 SW: 137.0 LDW: 132.0 March 2018
    R5 SW: 142.6 LDW: 132.1 November 2018
    LinderLou

  6. #198
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    Lynne, your experience is yours and this is not meant to refute it. As you stated you have a unique situation in your eating history, and it is great that it works for you.

    However, I want to point out for others that when Dr. Simeons increased calories to stop weight loss before the end of the injections, no fat was added. Fats are not to be used with HCG even on the transition days after stopping the injections. Fats are permitted during the interruption only after the transition off HCG that prepares you for it.

    People that add fats too early may not be able to keep their LIW, and fat binging during P2 can derail your progress for a week. Some may be able to modify the protocol and still get results. This is a caveat for those with severely damaged metabolisms or hormone imbalances who cannot lose any other way. It is those people that are most at risk when experimenting with changes such as the addition of fats to the HCG.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview
    Please note that any suggestions I make are based on the Original Protocol.

    My recent HCG round was with DietDoc. Our site owner has generously arranged for me to earn a small fee if you use my DietDoc or Nu Image Medical link to order your Hcg and supplies. (All HDI site discounts and coupons apply.) A full review of my experience and how the round progressed: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog here

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

  7. #199
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    Hi Leez,

    I appreciate your comments. I know you and others on the forum don't like the ketogenic diet, but for me, it has been life-changing; along with the HCG diet.

    I could not lose and keep off weight before HCG and keto. I finally am able to maintain my weight loss without deprivation, and my blood glucose levels are back to normal. Plus, I take no diabetic medications at all.

    I do not know how unique my situation is: close to 50% of adults are said to have T2D or pre-diabetes, due to the obesity epidemic here in the U.S. Along with opioid abuse, obesity and T2D contribute to the recent lowering of life expectancy.

    Since the intent of a reshaping round is to lose abnormal fat without losing overall weight, I'm not sure how having fats would derail the process. I just know I had better losses, and more reshaping, this round.

    I think my poor losses in R2 - R4 may have been due to mild HCG immunity, that I should have waited longer between rounds. I will wait until spring at least, before I try a reshaping round.

    In any case, I am so pleased to have finally gotten near goal weight, even if I still want a bit more reshaping.

    Lynne

  8. #200
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    Lynne - I also am SO glad that adding/keeping up your fat intake worked for you. I don't want to refute it either...

    When I read the Emaciated Lady bit, it sounded a lot like my first real hcg round where I mostly did reshaping. Aint it wonderful that it works that way? It totally proved to me that the weight loss was really different when done with hcg than any other diet out there. I am dumbfounded that all of the studies that have been done after the original Dr Simeons work have all (all but one, I think) come to the conclusion that the study subjects lost weight due to the 500 calorie diet and the hcg was not a factor! Where do I sign up to participate in one of those studies? Who are these researchers? Oh, that's right, they work for the drug companies so they can sell more medicine to people who suffer from illnesses brought on by being overweight. Such a sham. And a shame too.

    2016 SW: 186.2 GW: 115 HT: 5'3"
    Pre-HCG SW: 175
    Fake drops round:158.7 February 2017
    R1 SW: 158.7 LDW: 152.5 March 2017
    R2 SW: 151.3 LDW: 144.0 May 2017
    R3 SW: 135.9 LDW: 130.9 October 2017
    R4 SW: 137.0 LDW: 132.0 March 2018
    R5 SW: 142.6 LDW: 132.1 November 2018
    LinderLou

  9. #201
    Senior Member tracy's Avatar
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    Good morning! Leez, can you explain this a little more, please?
    "People that add fats too early may not be able to keep their LIW"

    Lynne, when you say your diet on P2 included 30g fat, what did that include?

    I'm fascinated by this discussion. Especially the concept of mild immunity, Lynne, if it's a thing then I believe I experienced it this round. I really need the full 6-7 months off before I do this last round but I always get tempted to start anew because I know it works. So y'all have to help stop me from starting!!!

    AFM, I'm good. I was much more mindful yesterday. No change in my number but I'm still in my window. Although last night I introduced a little whiskey
    ...

    Happy Friday errbody!
    "The only thing stopping you is you."

  10. #202
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    Good morning ladies,

    My correction seems to be holding, 135 and at goal! Yay!

    Linda, you are so right - The problem with science today is the funding, always biases the results. Researchers seldom go against the status quo and go along to get more grant money. Then the media trumpets sound bites and we get nonsense like the coffee is good / coffee is bad yo-yo.

    Tracy, I did "Keto assisted HCG 3.0", which I read about on another forum.

    A typical P2 day: eggs (1 whole + 6 tbs All Whites) scrambled with 1 tsp butter; Salad with 3 oz chicken breast and Maple Grove Farms Sugar Free Balsamic Vinaigrette; dinner would be 6 oz chicken breast, 6 or 7 mini San Marzano tomatoes cooked in 1 tbs coconut oil with Dried Chile Salsa and topped with 1 tbs Mascarpone cheese; snack would be 100 g Alter Eco Blackout 85% chocolate. Totals were 30 g fat, 60 to 70 g protein, 20 g carbs. Plus I took my regular supplements which included 4 large fish oil capsules every day. Coffee and water all day.

    I also did my previous round this way, but believe I had less success because of mild immunity.

    Leez, I understand you moderators strictly recommend the original protocol. I would just ask that you don't make negative comments about keto / LCHF / Atkins diets. I get that you don't like such diets for yourself; but for me, it has healed my metabolic issues.

    Happy Friday,

    Lynne

  11. #203
    Chief Moderator (my happy place :) Leez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tracy
    Good morning! Leez, can you explain this a little more, please?
    "People that add fats too early may not be able to keep their LIW"
    I was speaking there of the 72 hour transition coming off HCG. If you gain during that time from premature fat addition, you may not be able to get back down to your LIW in your P3.

    The feeling for a long time was that immunity was a myth, but over the last couple of years, its been popping up more and more here on these forums. Grammy suspects the sudden increase might be because HCG suppliers started prescribing those high 200iu and more doses about that time. If you suspect you started having immunity issues and have done more than 5 rounds, 6 months might not be enough wait time. You might want to wait a full year before trying HCG again.

    Lynne, we try to give our input always using the original protocol as the baseline, because it works for nearly everyone. We can (and do) acknowledge that some have success with other programs like keto and low-carb, but we can't recommend those for long term use. Many come to HCG having tried all those plans and failed, and HCG is their last hope. They desperately need a clear roadmap to success, so that is what we try to provide. We do a disservice to people if we don't warn about the risks to their thyroid and adrenals the low-carb plans can cause, both when mixed with the protocol, and also used as maintenance strategies.

    Everyone is always free to choose the road that they decide is best for them, of course, as you have done. And your testimony and success may help someone with a similar history trying to find their way.
    At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Maintenance strategies overview
    Please note that any suggestions I make are based on the Original Protocol.

    My recent HCG round was with DietDoc. Our site owner has generously arranged for me to earn a small fee if you use my DietDoc or Nu Image Medical link to order your Hcg and supplies. (All HDI site discounts and coupons apply.) A full review of my experience and how the round progressed: my Diet Doc review and my Hcg coaching blog here

    Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.

  12. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leez View Post
    I was speaking there of the 72 hour transition coming off HCG. If you gain during that time from premature fat addition, you may not be able to get back down to your LIW in your P3.
    This was why I think I will add another 24 hours to the transition time in the future. I'm still not able to shake those 2 pounds that I bounced right back up. Still right at the edge of my window... Grrrrr...

    Lynne - You are so right about the funding influencing the outcome of studies. I actually read through some of those studies, the entire text, not the summary, and at the end was just shaking my head. Most of them tweaked the OP so much that it was NOTHING like Dr Simeons' work and didn't test ANYTHING. You're also right about the press latching onto one piece of it and repeat it over and over again until most people believe it. Look what the low-fat lie has done to this country!

    So, my two cents about having fat on P2. On P2D18 we had dinner at a restaurant and I'm sure the chicken was cooked in oil. That little transgression threw me out of a losing pattern for a week. So, for me personally, I don't think the 3.0 version would work. I am so glad it does for you though!

    Also, on the T2D front, I was also diagnosed as pre-diabetic and it scared the heck out of me! My paternal grandfather was T2D and also at least 100 lbs overweight, so I know the genes could be there. I researched and researched and taught myself all about protein, fat & carbs. I then did Atkins and brought my fasting blood sugar levels down into the 80s, instead of 100s. I also managed to lose about 20 lbs, but it was a struggle. Maintenance on LCHF works really well for me and keep my BS levels pretty constant.

    Leez - I know that you say being low carb is bad for your thyroid and adrenals, and it may be. Like Lynne, I just know that eating carbs does not bode well for my blood sugar levels and makes me feel bad. I don't plan to go the Keto route, but also don't plan to bring bread back into my diet anytime soon. I get my carbs from fruits and veggies and that seems to work well.

    Interesting discussion on immunity. That doesn't develop with hhcg, does it? I tend to agree with Grammy that it could be more common now with those ridiculously high doses. The RX pellets were even higher and I don't think I ever got it under control. Things were very different this round - thankfully.

    Everyone have a super weekend!

    2016 SW: 186.2 GW: 115 HT: 5'3"
    Pre-HCG SW: 175
    Fake drops round:158.7 February 2017
    R1 SW: 158.7 LDW: 152.5 March 2017
    R2 SW: 151.3 LDW: 144.0 May 2017
    R3 SW: 135.9 LDW: 130.9 October 2017
    R4 SW: 137.0 LDW: 132.0 March 2018
    R5 SW: 142.6 LDW: 132.1 November 2018
    LinderLou

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