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View Poll Results: Does Dr. Woliner's argument hold water?

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  • Yes, Dr. Woliner references the statements he makes.

    2 2.04%
  • Yes, the argument sounds good, but I haven't checked out his references to know for sure.

    3 3.06%
  • Yes, but I still disagree with him. I lost weight with hCG and it worked for me!

    58 59.18%
  • No. Dr. Woliner is full of it. He made all this stuff up.

    35 35.71%
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Thread: Dr. Woliner's views on hCG and weight loss

  1. #13
    Start where you are. alcoholswab's Avatar
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    Poll: Does Dr. Woliner's argument hold water?
    - Yes, Dr. Woliner references the statements he makes.
    - Yes, the argument sounds good, but I haven't checked out his references to know for sure.
    - Yes, but I still disagree with him. I lost weight with hCG and it worked for me!
    - No. Dr. Woliner is full of it. He made all this stuff up.
    The fact that 75% of the answers give credence to your argument (even if one disagrees with you) really sets you up for response order bias.

    All of the words that follow the simple yes or no further refine this down to something so meaningless that it makes me wonder what your point is.

    Quote Originally Posted by KenWolinerMD View Post
    A forum administrator named "Jarret" asked me to start this thread.
    I think you have misinterpreted him.

    He said this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarret View Post
    If you don't agree with the diet post in The Boxing Ring forum as it is there for a reason, all other forums on here are meant for people to discuss the diet and not be disagreed with.
    and then this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarret View Post
    You answered a question yes, but your inclusion of the link that explains how this diet can be harmful was completely unnecessary. You could have provided the exact same answer as you did without that link and nobody would have ever known.

    This thread will not be moved anywhere as it doesn't belong anywhere else other than here. It exists to specifically answer the question about whether or not vitamins are ok to take while doing the diet.

    I will not be starting a thread anywhere to discuss anything with you as I am here to enforce the rules and the fact that I know very little about this diet.

  2. #14
    Senior Member Laceyinsd's Avatar
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    OMG! Don't even get me started on the corrupt FDA. It is corrupt and funded by big pharma (their own scientists admitted it!) Anyone who uses the FDA opinions as evidence loses all credibility in my book.

  3. #15
    Senior Member Grandma of 7's Avatar
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    I won't take this poll. I don't agree with what is said but I don't agree either with the way the questions are worded. The only No on their if I would choose to vote also says he made this all up...that's a huge statement! Made it all up??? Probably not...Do I agree?? NO!!!

    My sister had bariatric surgery and I prayed daily for her. She went through h*** for a week after surgery. She was in pain, miserable, couldn't eat ANYTHING! Vomited all the time. Her Doc told her it was np just like having a C-Section. Her first words were HE LIED! Since she had 3 C-Sections she knew. She also for months could only eat a couple of bites and became ill. Her stomach was always upset. Yes she lost 100 pounds in a year. From my point of view she did it by literally starving her body!!! She couldn't eat, still 2 years after surgery has stomach issues. She looks awful. Skinny yes but awful. She always looked young and vibrant although heavy. Now she looks like she is 20 years older. Her skin "hangs" everywhere. It's a dark color, she looks unhealthy. Of course the bariatric docs don't like hcg. Where would they make their money if we all do hcg??

    I also had a ND tell me once that a big university which I won't name had a medical wing. They decided to put in an alternative health wing also. They found it so successful that the docs in the medical wing were "each" losing 100grand a DAY in lost surgeries. So guess what their brilliance did...closed down the alternative wing!!! Yes they are all so interested in us and our welfare.

    Big Pharma started corrupting a long time ago.

    I'm free to make my choices...these are my opinions...and I'm sticking with hcg. I've seen the medical people do more harm to people then hcg. Sorry to say some of the harm they did people didn't live to tell us about...

    Dr. if you want us to see your point and believe you...forget it!!! Your one of them...

  4. #16
    Start where you are. alcoholswab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenWolinerMD View Post
    Alcoholswab,
    I find it interesting that instead of discussing the subject of the post (at all), you make a personal attack on the person you disagree with.

    It is good that RateMDs, Vitals.com, and othe doctor rating sites track the IP addresses of those posting positive (or negative) comments, to prevent fraud and abuse. Rather than hiding behind a moniker such as what you have done, I have openly identified who I am. I wonder if you would have the courage to do the same?

    Attempting (and often succeeding) in chasing off persons that have contrarian views to your own makes it appear that you have a hidden financial interest in "Nu Image", the company that advertises heavily all over this bulletin board (even attaching their ads to the first post of every new thread). I am sure that is not the case, but why would you want to give that impression?

    If you would like to discuss my article, I'll be more than happy to listen to your views.
    You misinterpret my post.

    When I, or the majority of the posters on this forum, present an opinion it stands on foundation of the credibility we have built up in our time here (Grammy being a prime example of someone that people heed since she has tirelessly helped thousands on these very boards). If your ideas had any weight to them, then you could have logged on as "KW" or any other name, providing yourself ample opportunity to defend them. Instead you sought to bypass that by presenting your credentials as an easy means of giving your words extra weight.

    If it seems strange that people would start to wonder about those credentials (read: check your facts), or to question your potential bias (http://www.holisticfamilymed.com/, treating "weight loss resistance" at your clinic), it would seem like you wished us to accept it without holding it up to the light so our jaundiced eyes could take its true measure.

    There is no personal attack, I am merely presenting your own patient's words about you. I am sure you are a nice enough chap, and many of those situations are easily explained (surely the fact that they were torqued off by your staff before they even got to you did not help matters much), but even you have to admit that there is a lot of vitriol there and comments about your motives to take a second look.

    I need not present anecdotal evidence for you Ken, since you are not listening. If such a tact worked with you then we would not be having this chat. You have the potential to see tens of thousands of such comments, but you came here to bring fire back to our proverbial cave. I do appreciate you offering me the best way to address your article though.

    Perhaps I am a representative of an hCG company. Perhaps not. *shrug* If you do your due diligence and read my posts you will see someone fielding other people's questions and going through the protocol twice.

    As an aside I would suggest that you wend your way to the bottom of the forum page and look at all of the monikers people use. It is normative for people to pick a jaunty little board handle and run with it. You issue a challenge for me to come out of the shadows and fight like a man, but honestly my own validity needs to come from my words (AKA I don't have a medical degree to back up what I say, think or feel).

    I am just a guy who has lost 123.9 pounds and has helped hundreds of people on these boards.

    I do agree that I have not addressed your article directly. For that I am sorry, for that is unfair to you, so I will go back and do that now. Please never feel that contrary opinions are not appreciated here, especially by me. I just wish you had come in with a different "hat" on, so we could discuss this without all the noise.

    p.s. If only there was a way to get around the IP address thing for a smart guy like you... (hi mom, please say....hi sis, please say.... hi secretary 4, please say... hi bob my best friend, please say....). I am not suggesting that you have faked the posts, I am merely presenting how how it could be done. To be fair, if you were a patient coming to see you, would you not be worried about such comments? Would you also not question why suddenly you and your staff are wonderful, but it is interlaced with comments about how horrible you are as well?

  5. #17
    RN, Retired HDI Forums Moderator ILuvKats's Avatar
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    Sigh...where to begin. Such a target rich environment. One thing I've learned in life is that credibility is earned, must be safe guarded, and is easily lost if you are not careful. Our visiting doctor is a member of the conventional medicine club, the same ones who change the rules every few years about how to maintain health....and we are supposed to just accept and follow the current dogma (sun orbiting earth, yada yada). No other profession can publicly proclaim that "everything we proclaimed to be true last year is now false, and this is now the truth....honestly, we know we are right this time, so you need to believe us and do what we say." Ahem....sigh...

    I have two sayings for you doctor....the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. And the second is fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

    Health care needs to adjust to the increased education level of their clientele. Gone are the days when we knew more about how our cars worked than we did our own bodies. Also gone are the days of blind trust in health care providers. This is a forum full of folks who don't mind a dissenting opinion on hcg, they just don't blindly listen to you or your peer reviewed journal cites (definition, if it's not conventional medical wisdom, the good old boy club will not allow it). you interpret their lack of deference to you as a problem....I look at it as refreshing and long over due in our country.
    I am a Registered Nurse and Moderator of the Hcg Diet Info forums. I am an expert on the Hcg Diet Plan and have over 10 years of experience as a weight loss coach.
    Medical Disclaimer

  6. #18
    Super Member! Mrs.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcoholswab View Post
    You misinterpret my post.

    When I, or the majority of the posters on this forum, present an opinion it stands on foundation of the credibility we have built up in our time here (Grammy being a prime example of someone that people heed since she has tirelessly helped thousands on these very boards). If your ideas had any weight to them, then you could have logged on as "KW" or any other name, providing yourself ample opportunity to defend them. Instead you sought to bypass that by presenting your credentials as an easy means of giving your words extra weight.
    ^ that!!

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  7. #19
    Start where you are. alcoholswab's Avatar
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    Forgive me erasing the bulk of opinion and commentary on what you or your secretary might think/feel/do, but your article is rather lengthy and my impatient self *eyes flit away for a moment as he tracks a butterfly* will now truncate it to your verbose talking points...

    Quote Originally Posted by KenWolinerMD View Post
    1. "people lost weight, but they also lost hair too" and some did not get their hair back
    2. "loss of protein from vital organs"
    3. Hunger is staved off by the starvation diet alone
    4. Double blind studies show hCG is akin to a placebo, you are losing because you are eating so little
    5. The FDA says hCG is bad
    6. hCG's resurgence is due to Kevin Trudeau, who is not a trustworthy, even as a cellmate
    7. The ASBP feels that hCG is potentially dangerous
    My musings...
    1. Perhaps the construction of that sentence is awkward, or my reading is not what it used to be, but you gave the impression that everyone loses hair, which is untrue. I do agree that some people do lose hair, and some never get it back.
    When you are dealing with as many health concerns as most of us are, we would rather be healthy and bald than fat and coifed.

    2. I am not a medical professional, but what test would determine that you have lost protein from vital organs? I ask because I did my last round under the scrutiny of two medical professionals, who watched my liver and kidney function (among other things) very closely for any potential issues. My labs came back perfect or better than before every time.

    3. Hunger is indeed staved off by starvation in the short term. There are people that do this diet for 60+ days. I hope you will agree that feeling almost no hunger for periods that long are surprising.

    4. Starvation diets, or nigh-starvation diets do not produce targeted losses like this. Heck, no diet produces targeted losses like this. If it's simply starvation, and the hCG is akin to liking fly eyeballs, then why are we seeing this sort of loss?

    5. There are not enough profane words for how most of us feel about the FDA, so I will pretend like you didn't even mention them

    6. Kevin Trudeau brought it back, but we do not tout his reformulation, though we do use his vernacular. Dr. Simeons' Pounds & Inches is the Bible here.

    7. Here is my own personal problem with medical professionals banding together and being against something that will lose them money in the long term...they are behind horrifically poisonous medicines and impossibly dangerous procedures without blinking. Any validity that a doctor that frowns at hCG, but does not blink about an invasive lapband procedure, is lost instantly. I cannot name a person over the age of 60 that I know that is not taking a handful of medications...that scares me and makes me lose faith in the medical profession.

    Now if you were forthright and honest about taking anecdotal evidence, from a poster, as being something you would heed, then the above should give you pause. If you are on a crusade, then I expect it to be disregarded.

    If I missed some other crucial/salient point, please feel free to point it out.

    Let's play pretend for awhile...
    Ken, I am unsure if you have ever battled obesity in your life, but if you (or someone you care about) were morbidly obese, especially considering all of the anecdotal evidence on this site, and the likely myriad of failures that most have in traditional dieting over the long term, would you try it?

    If you look at the risk vs. reward, most tip the scales by talking down to hCG, but they do not balance it out with the other side of all the inevitable concerns that obesity brings to the table. So they are saying no to hCG because of potential risks versus inevitable deleterious effects.

    Here is where I offer the soapbox back to you...
    What alternative would you offer up if you are dismissing hCG as an option?

  8. #20
    Start where you are. alcoholswab's Avatar
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    As an aside...

    I would like to welcome you to the boards Ken.

    It is in fact a warm and snuggly place, though you may not feel that way right now from the crusty reception I have unintentionally provided to you. Please do not take my comments as an attack on you, and if they come across that way I apologize, I am merely presenting my own opinion on the matter. You are obviously a motivated and intelligent person, who would be an invaluable resource to this site.

    Know that there are hundreds of people on these boards that are desperately clinging to one last shred of hope after being failed by countless other diets, fads and doctors in the past. If you are simply out to assassinate this diet, without offering something in its place, then I am saddened.

    Whatever the conventional wisdom of the medical industry might say (pointing at double blind studies from the days of yore) this diet is producing results that bely the words of caution and the accusations of 2012 "snake oil" that are bandied about. I hope you see that, despite all your verbal ejaculations to the contrary, there is something happening here that is worth cracking open your mind a bit.

    sheeesh...feeling a bit stuffy in here...let me help



    p.s. I question everything I am handed, as anyone would know that I have helped, or spent time with me in a loading group, so trust in me when I say that I have come at this a thousand ways, and do not find it lacking in the big picture (and this is coming from a guy who got gout as a result of his rounds...there's some ammo for your anti-hCG peoples!).

  9. #21
    Member Keto's Avatar
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    When other physicians tried to replicate Dr. Simeons’ results in double-blind studies,
    they realized that the shots didn’t do anything, and that weight loss was due to the
    diet alone [7]. Study after study was published showing that the injections were
    just expensive placebos [8-13].


    What other physicians and where is the data of these studies?
    Personally I haven't seen one shred of evidence either
    from any studies or from people who have reported being on
    the HCG that mentioned anyone with serious life threatening issues.
    I've taken various prescription drugs in my life that
    came with some serious potential side affects.
    Have seen zero proof that has convinced me that the HCG diet is dangerous.
    The testimony of hundreds out here convinced me to try the HCG diet.
    I have five friends who have tried it as well, and they each
    passed it on to many friends. So far I've not heard anyone say
    they had any catastrophic issues related to this diet.

    Seems that the people trying to present the argument that the HCG diet
    is not safe and in fact "very dangerous" don't have any facts to base
    that opinion on and are just parroting what they've heard elswehere.
    We the people who have tried it (probably thousands of people across the world) have had
    success with HCG with little to no side affects at all. That speaks volumes to me.




    Don't Feed the Troll!

  10. #22
    Super Member! Mrs.'s Avatar
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    This thread reminds me of the whole cholesterol issue. "Cholesterol is bad for you. Proof is all the studies that show that it is. Sure, we had to take out all those countries where they eat a lot of cholesterol and have no heart disease, but overall, form our analysis of the data, the results are conclusive: cholesterol is bad."

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  11. #23
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    My two cents: I believe most medical physicians enter the field to truely help people; however soon after starting a practice they are lobbied by pharmaceutical companies giving them free samples of this and that, and soon, just like the FDA, they no longer work for the patient but instead work for the pharmaceutical companies.

    Does anyone actually believe that after decades of research and billions of dollars there is still no cure for cancer? Watch "Food Matters" it opens a lot of eyes. As well as "The Gerson Miracle," and "The Beautiful Truth."
    Fast Weight loss Online at the Weight Loss Center

  12. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keto View Post
    When other physicians tried to replicate Dr. Simeons’ results in double-blind studies,
    they realized that the shots didn’t do anything, and that weight loss was due to the
    diet alone [7]. Study after study was published showing that the injections were
    just expensive placebos [8-13].


    What other physicians and where is the data of these studies?
    Personally I haven't seen one shred of evidence either
    from any studies or from people who have reported being on
    the HCG that mentioned anyone with serious life threatening issues.
    I've taken various prescription drugs in my life that
    came with some serious potential side affects.
    Have seen zero proof that has convinced me that the HCG diet is dangerous.
    The testimony of hundreds out here convinced me to try the HCG diet.
    I have five friends who have tried it as well, and they each
    passed it on to many friends. So far I've not heard anyone say
    they had any catastrophic issues related to this diet.

    Seems that the people trying to present the argument that the HCG diet
    is not safe and in fact "very dangerous" don't have any facts to base
    that opinion on and are just parroting what they've heard elswehere.
    We the people who have tried it (probably thousands of people across the world) have had
    success with HCG with little to no side affects at all. That speaks volumes to me.

    The people parroting it are those who stand to make money off of other weight loss products such as the Lap-Band, and gastric banding. Oh and all dont forget to eat 13 servings of whole wheat a day and eat low fat meals (sarcasm). There's finally two things that are hitting the mainstream that work for people. Weight loss - HCG, Overall health - Paleo diet.
    Fast Weight loss Online at the Weight Loss Center

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