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Thread: Oh NO! I already mixed sublingual solution, and *now* I read about Dalton size! UGH

  1. #13
    Senior Member alouise26's Avatar
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    I am on my third round of sublingual Rx.
    I have read all of Dr. Belluscio's studies on oral administration of hcg. The studies are mostly from the '70's and lack any conclusions in regards to the manner in which oral hcg is absorbed. Although serum levels of hcg were undetectable in patients studied, the double-blind studies suggest that hcg molecules are only partially absorbed, thus, a "double dose" of hcg must be taken by those choosing the sublingual route. Compared to those receiving a placebo, the patients receiving hcg orally shown significant changes in mood and overall well being, higher losses of adipose tissues, and less hunger.

    I realize the conclusions were left in a state of hypothesis, but here is an exert from one of the studies performed:
    "Hashimoto and Sawai reported that commercial preparations of hCG contain B-endorphin a neuropeptide related to changes in mood behavior. Pure hCG contains B-endorphin as well. Consequently, we hypothesized that the content of B-endorphin in hCG might be responsible for the slight “euphoria” observed in our patients. This opioid might act in the hypothalamic region, an area of major synthesis of B-endorphin. But a major drawback to this supposition lies in the fact that except for a few reports, several studies conclude that B-endorphin does not cross the blood-brain barrier, or if it does, it is either taken up by the brain or broken down with extreme rapidity. …..It occurred to us, from a pure hypothetic view point, that hCG might be the “carrier” for B-endorphin into the brain: hCG crosses the CNS blood brain barrier and it accumulates in the hypothalamus." http://hcgobesity.org/research/Vogt_...io_article.pdf

    Also read this: http://www.hcgobesity.org/hcg_obesity.pdf

    I know it might not be enough to convince any of you, and a more recent and thorough study has just not been conducted, but Dr. Belluscio's clinic in Argentina is still functional and successful.

    I myself am a great example of proof it works. I was EXTREMELY skeptical this would work for me due to the lack of conclusive scientific evidence; but I decided to do it anyway because homeopathics just don't seem to work for me, and I am a needle-phobe I know sublingual works. I can tell when my dose is off, or perfect for that matter. My mother who has previously done injections was so skeptical about sublingual, but tried it for her most recent (4th) round, and she reports significant improvements from her previous 2 rounds of injections.

    Perhaps I am not convincing for those who desire more sufficient proof of the effectiveness of this method of administration, but in my own personal experiment on myself and with my mother, it works.
    DISCLAIMER: I mostly follow Dr. Simeons protocol however, I may talk about things that are not advised in his book Pounds and Inches. Those things or items have neutral affect on me personally and do not effect my weight loss in an unfavorable way, however. I will attempt to note when something I mention is "off protocol".
    RESOURCES:
    Weight Loss Apocalypse by: Robin Phipps Woodall
    Mindset Magic by Happy Conscious Gal
    Geneen Roth

  2. #14
    Start where you are. alcoholswab's Avatar
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    A goodly part of the mental portion of this protocol is believing in the product you are taken. Barbie illustrates sufficient doubt that is a distraction I wish to avoid, so I will return to Rx injections for my next round.

    Hopefully in the interim someone will come up with an explanation that backs the anecdotal evidence.

    Thanks Barbie, I appreciate the heads up

  3. #15
    This is interesting and curious. I've tried other things that should have had at least a placebo effect in the past and didn't. But this worked. Not sure I believe it was just placebo effect. I have stabilized just fine and I would think if I lost only because of the restricted diet and placebo effect I would have quickly gained back when I upped my calories and types of foods. But I didn't.

  4. #16
    Super Chief-Ninja Moderator grammy1952's Avatar
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    One more thing. I'm not sure of the Dalton size of B12 but for years doctors said you couldn't absorb B12 through the stomach or mouth, then they found you could. Now you can take high doses of b12 and get the levels up right. So I'm not sure how much the Dalton thing is actually true. You may get different views on that.
    My expert Hcg Diet advice is based specifically on the original Simeons Protocol and over 10 years experience as a weight loss and nutrition coach. Grammy's personal protocol:Grammy's Hcg Diet Protocol
    Grammy's author website: ColleenCoble.com

    I am not a medical doctor and my statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition. Please always check with your doctor for medical questions and assistance. Medical Disclaimer:

  5. #17
    Start where you are. alcoholswab's Avatar
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    My doc's answer was that it will not work in any measurable amount.

    I sent him the following this morning as a follow-up to ensure I understood him correctly:
    "There is so much anecdotal evidence that suggests that patients are gleaning benefit from oral application of hCG (not only weight loss, but being sated, losing abnormal fat stores, body shaping, not just regaining like you would expect after a period of starvation, et cetera), and while I know that anecdotal evidence is not given much credence, it does lend one to gaze a bit deeper at something that looks to be a dead end.

    I remember vitamin B12 being touted as unable to be absorbed through the stomach and mouth due to dalton size. I went searching for the dalton size and found it to be 1350 (http://www.docstoc.com/docs/14366507...Chromatography). Taking into account that B12 is now delivered both through injection and oral applications, it would suggest that something is getting through even though it is too large to get in.

    It seems to muddy the waters a bit, unless I am missing something glaring. This gives a glimmer of hope for your sublingual homeopathic hCG drops patients.

    Perhaps there's more to it than simple absorption into the blood stream.

    Sorry to steal more time, just my musings this morning."

    His answer (yes he answers fast cause he loves me, and that's why I'm giving his office 4 types of chocolate on Friday for Christmas):
    A finite amount might get through, but in a unquantifiable quantity.

    He spoke of the HIV virus not being able to pass through the mucosal membrane of an intact mouth, but is there any risk of getting HIV infection through oral sex? Possibly.

    Absorbtion of vitamin B12 intestinally is unreliable, so if they are looking for a reliable result they give oral medication in conjuntion with an injection.

    Are people still taking vitamin B12 orally by itself? Yes.

  6. #18
    Start where you are. alcoholswab's Avatar
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    hCG Diet Canada got back to me with the cell phone of the doctor they consult with.

    Message left for Dr. Rayner to call me back regarding this question.

    I have also asked for the contact number for the American doctor they use.

    Will update you on any answers I get.

  7. #19
    Thanks! Even though I am doing fine with the subQ injections, I am still curious to hear what the pros say
    Barbie
    _____________________________________________
    Round 1! Zykog 125 iu inj. BUT: 1,800-2,200 kcal high fat & high protein paleo diet (no VLCD!)
    Goal (by 1/28): 168 lbs.

    12/1 - 192 ---> then began high-kcal PALEO diet for first time
    1/1 - 184 ---> began HCG (continued 2,000 kcal high fat/high protein diet)
    1/17 - 176.2
    ....
    1/17 - forum is too stressful, my cortisol levels are shooting up. Unsubbing board today. Feel free to email me privately if you would like to keep in touch...

  8. #20
    Start where you are. alcoholswab's Avatar
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    Dr. Belluscio got back to me, but sadly his reply came with this at the end of it:

    The information contained in this email and its attachment(s) is CONFIDENTIAL and may also be LEGALLY PRIVILEGED and is intended only for the
    addressee.
    If you are not the intended addressee you are asked to respect that confidentiality and you must not redistribute, disclose, reproduce or make use of its contents except as intended.
    As far as legally possible, I herewith exclude any liability for loss or damage caused by software viruses.
    Thank you.


    So I cannot cut and paste it here, but he did let me know that it has been the source of his study for the last 25 years and it is currently underway, so he cannot reveal any of the protocols.

    Please no private messages about how I got in touch with him or asking for a copy of his missive to me.

  9. #21
    Well that sucks, but thanks for looking into it, Alcoholswab. I have been doing sublingual as originally planned for the past 6 days, and have seen fantastic results with little to no hunger. I just know there is more to it. There's no way I'd be seeing these results if it was just placebo! I know my body too well, and even more than that, I know my body on a diet too well! I've had trouble even doing 1500 or 1800 calories per day (too much hunger) and I'm very strongly and confidently doing 500 now. Also, if it was just a placebo and it was the calorie restriction doing the work there's no way I'd have numbers like I have, consistently. I think the first few days may just have been water, but not every day.

    Anyway, I'm continuing with the sublingual and am keeping my ears open about this whole thing. Although I am very eager to hear what results, etc, the injections bring as well. Thanks ladies! Love and luck to all!!

  10. #22
    Start where you are. alcoholswab's Avatar
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    I have requested Dr. Belluscio's leave to post his answer to my e-query and provided him with a link to his namesake part of the forum.

    Hopefully that is sufficient to get him to drop by and perhaps post, or provide permission to post exactly what he wrote to me.

    (crosses fingers)

  11. #23
    Start where you are. alcoholswab's Avatar
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    Subject: Inquiry for Dr. Belluscio regarding dalton units and hCG absorbtion (from moi):

    Dr. Belluscio,

    I was scanning through different literature and came across some information that has me questioning a sublingual application of hCG.

    I was wondering if you could speak to the truth of this.

    - ~300 daltons is the maximum weight of a protein that can be readily absorbed by the submucosal membranes
    - Insulin is over 5000 daltons, which is the reason why there is no sublingual applications offered, forcing diabetics to inject themselves
    - hCG is even larger still (30000+ daltons)

    If I am understanding this correctly, then no hCG would be able to be absorbed sublingually via drops.

    Thank you for your time and consideration of this question.
    Dr. Belluscio's reply:

    Subject: Re: Inquiry for Dr. Belluscio regarding dalton units and hCG absorbtion

    Hello:

    Good point, which has been the subject of my interest for the past 25 years.

    We have, on one side, the Double Blind studies concluding oralhCG decreases fat masses from conspicuos body areas more efficiently than placebo.
    http://www.oralhcg.com/english/in2.6.htm

    Also in rats, using the intrarectal approach, a mucose quite similar to sublingual mucose.

    http://precedings.nature.com/documents/5781/version/1

    But: how is that oralhCG has a metabolic action, and cannot be detected in plasma using the standard radioimmunoassays for hCG?

    And here comes a new approach to detect hCG in plasma: High Pressure Liquid Chromatography (HPLC).

    Sorry I cannot be more explicit, since our Research program is underway, and cannot disclose any detail on the protocols.

    Anyhow, many thanks for your smart inquiry.

    Best regards,

    Dr. Daniel Oscar Belluscio
    Director-The hCG Research Center
    ISAUC Foundation
    http://hcgobesity.org/research
    http://hcgobesity.info
    http://hcgobesity.org/ifcor
    http://oralhcg.com
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
    The information contained in this email and its attachment(s) is
    CONFIDENTIAL and may also be LEGALLY PRIVILEGED and is intended only for the
    addressee.
    If you are not the intended addressee you are asked to respect that
    confidentiality and you must not redistribute, disclose, reproduce or make
    use of its contents except as intended.
    As far as legally possible, I herewith exclude any liability for loss or
    damage caused by software viruses.
    Thank you.
    My request to bypass his confidentiality thing:

    Subject: RE: Inquiry for Dr. Belluscio regarding dalton units and hCG absorbtion

    Dr. Belluscio, I cannot properly express my gratitude at your speedy reply to my question. I appreciate you taking the time to address my concern, as far as your own research will permit.

    With your permission I would like to post the content below on an hCG forum (http://hcgdietinfo.com/hcgdietforums/f22/), where others may view it to help disperse some of the anxiety that has grown over the issue of dalton weight. I would remove all e-mails and refuse to provide any means of contacting you or your clinic.

    Would you be comfortable with me posting the information below?
    Dr. Belluscio's reply:

    Hello:

    Feel free to post the information on your web.
    A word of caution ,however: until we gather all the data that will allow us to fully sustain our working hypothesis from a Scientific point, our Research Center keeps a low, academic profile.
    We will appreciate your cooperation on this issue.

    Perhaps you could brief these investigations explaining your readers that a serious and responsible research program is actually underway.

    Thank you for your understanding,

    Best regards,

    Dr. Daniel Oscar Belluscio
    Director-The hCG Research Center
    ISAUC Foundation
    http://hcgobesity.org/research
    http://hcgobesity.info
    http://hcgobesity.org/ifcor
    http://oralhcg.com
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
    The information contained in this email and its attachment(s) is
    CONFIDENTIAL and may also be LEGALLY PRIVILEGED and is intended only for the
    addressee.
    If you are not the intended addressee you are asked to respect that
    confidentiality and you must not redistribute, disclose, reproduce or make
    use of its contents except as intended.
    As far as legally possible, I herewith exclude any liability for loss or
    damage caused by software viruses.
    Thank you.
    So glad that he gave me leave to post this here

    I <3 Dr. B!

  12. #24
    Senior Member cynm's Avatar
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    thanks alcoholswab for all ur work in getting us answers to this perplexing question!!!!
    url=http://www.TickerFactory.com/weight-loss/wnj3NHx/]


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