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stuck and VERY frustrated

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  • stuck and VERY frustrated

    I'm posting this for my wife. She doesn't have internet access at work right now, but I know she's super frustrated and looking for answers/help, and I'm trying to help her find answers by the time she gets home.

    This is her second time doing the HCG diet (we had a child in between). The first time was hugely successful. I think she dropped something like 30 pounds. That first time was at a clinic, but we moved and she got her stuff this time from NuImage.

    She's at day 12 right now, and has stalled, at only about 6 pounds lost. Last time around, she was dropping a pound per day at this point. She had 3 consecutive days at 0.4, one day at 0.2, and today nothing. She's following the diet (absolutely no cheat foods/drinks, nothing "optional", no melba toast, no alternative or * foods, no dairy, no sugar). We've both been trying to read articles, and figure out what gives, but I don't know. Hopefully someone here can ask a question or spark something she's not doing, or doing that she shouldn't that could be the cause. She desperately wants to "fit into her other wardrobe".

    The only two things I can really think of are: 1) she "mixes" vegetables. She'll have a salad (half the lettuce amount), with tomato or cucumber (again, half amounts). She's careful to keep calorie counts regular. 2) She's been drinking a lot more water than recommended (close to 90 oz per day, she weighed 176 at the start).

    She started at 175 IU based on another blog/website describing how "most start this diet taking too much", even though the Nu Image recommended 200IU. She did 200IU last time around, and was ravenously hungry in the beginning especially. She just upped to 200IU yesterday thinking that maybe try copying exactly what she did before, but didn't lose anything.

    I almost forgot, this time around she also got the extra B12 and Lipo (something).

    Last edited by Jenya; May 23rd, 2018, 01:55 PM.

  • #2
    Thank you for sharing your situation with us. I have experienced this several times. Neither of them were stuck longer than half month. I think this has to do with your body being "stubborn" and not wanting to lose weight. I say give it a little more time, keep doing all the right things. If its still stubborn, reach out to your nutritionist.
    Professional Weight Loss Coach at Diet Doc and Official Coach for Hcg Diet Info Forums.

    At Diet Doc, we support the original protocol, but also specialize in customizing the overall plan based on individual height, weight, activity level, and other factors. We have many clients that love the simplicity of the Dr. Simeon's plan, and are happy to support whichever approach helps you reach your weight loss goal.


    • #3
      200 iu is WAY too high of a dose. 125-150 is where most people find their sweet spot. I would guess even 175 is too high. Poor losses and raveous hunger are almost always dose issue!! It is very rare someone finds there correct dose at 200 iu.

      Please tell your wife to skip her next dose! When you skip an injection, you gauge how you feel after 4:00 pm. If she experiences MORE hunger after 4, she needs to increase her dose. If she experiences LESS hunger after 4, she needs to lower her dose.

      Tell her that she should not change her dose without a skip day for a few reasons: 1) you cannot know which way to adjust your dose if you don’t have a skip day and gauge how you feel in the evening. 2) Even if you do manage to guess correctly and change your dose in the right direction without the skip day, it will take 3 days for that new dose to take affect because the higher dose of HCG stays in your system for days. Skipping a dose helps lower the levels of HCG in your system so that the NEW dose can take affect at your next injection and you can feel the relief.

      I experienced this exact situation and once I found my dose, I was incredibly relieved. I was told to take 200 iu by NuImage and DietDoc, and it caused so much hunger, poor losses, and inevitably I cheated and quit the protocol. Now, I started at 150 iu, and at VLCD19, I just changed my dose to 125 iu after a skip day because I started to experience more hunger, cravings, and my losses slowed abnormally. Now, the new dose is PERFECT, and I’ll stay here until I begin feeling hungry again.

      Please report back and let us know how she goes!


      • #4
        Originally posted by Donutqueen View Post
        I was told to take 200 iu by NuImage and DietDoc, and it caused so much hunger, poor losses, and inevitably I cheated and quit the protocol.
        I'm really worried (and she is too) about doing this EXACT same spiral. If 200IU is too high, then why is it "recommended" by nearly every provider as a starting point?

        If she manages to "find her new dose", will the weight loss be a sling-shot and catch back up, or just get back on track back trending more steadily down?

        As a side question, what is it about the veggies and not mixing? Is it just fear of going over calories? Or, is she fine to mix up her salads? She's not too excited about the bland nature of the diet, and mixing the few ingredients she can has been a life-saver for trying to have something that almost seems like a regular meal.


        • #5
          As others said, I suspect her dose is too high and it can lead to slow losses or stalls. Most people start with a dose of 150 iu and adjust from there if they need to. I do not know why so many clinics recommend such high doses. Dr. Simeons (the creator of this plan) said to use 125 iu IM injections. Most of us take subq injections and therefore go a little higher at 125 to 150. I can only speculate that the people running the clinics just don't understand how this works. More is not better.

          She should skip a day before lowering her dose. What dose did she take last time? And she probably should not expect to lose 30 lbs. 20-25 is more likely.

          And she should start following the protocol exactly. She should read the original manuscript, Pounds and Inches. Make sure to follow the original food list which does not allow for mixing of vegetables. Some people can mix foods or eat off protocol foods with no issues. Many of us cannot. She may be in that category of people who cannot. Yes, the food is boring. It's only a month out of her life though. She'll survive boring food. Add some herbs to jazz it up.

          She doesn't need to drink 96 ounces of water each day unless she really wants to. The plan calls for 2 liters of liquid a day. She can and should have the melba toast or a suitable substitute. She can certainly have the 1 tablespoon of milk a day. I don't know how messed up NuImage's food list is, but she should compare it to the original and follow that one instead. Simply eating turkey breast rather than chicken breast or broccoli rather than an approved vegetable can really mess up losses.

          As for NuImage, it seems like a decent place to order legal prescription strength hcg, but I don't use them and I would hope nobody would follow their instructions because their instructions are just wrong from every complaint I've read on these boards.


          • #6
            The ONLY part of the original protocol that she hasn’t followed is the one veggie at a time. This is the exact same as she did the first time though. The first time she did the HCG diet, the clinic told her any veggies were fine, but stay within calories (only one kind of fruit was allowed at a time though). Does anyone know the reasoning behind only one veggie at a time? I don’t see this one-veggie-at-a-time working for her. I think it will cause even more diet frustration and lead to getting off altogether.

            The reason why she hasn’t done toast or milk is because she was originally told from a brick-and-mortar clinic she did it the first time that they were “optional”, and so she wanted to stay to only “approved” foods.

            I think perhaps the biggest thing I’m hearing, is to decrease dosage. She was at 175IU, then went up to 200 the past two days in an attempt to speed up weight loss (but it looks like it did the fact opposite). I just talked to her, and it sounds like a no-dose day wouldn’t be a great idea given her work load, and she can’t get “hangry” . So, going to go down to 150. She injects subq every morning, so it’ll be Friday/Saturday before things get moving now, right?

            Is it common for it to work one time so easily, and for things to not work the same another time? She’s super frustrated, just wants to lose weight, and “do what worked”....


            • #7
              She will be less “hangry” with a skip day. She is under the impression that more HCG = less hunger but the fact that she is miserable is proof that this is not true in her case. Please let her know that without a skip day, she won’t feel the relief of lowering her dose until about 3 days after her dose change. It will take a lot longer for her to start feeling better if she goes from taking 200iu one day, to 150iu the next.

              I have no idea why clinics start on high doses. THe only thing I can suspect is that they want to sell more. But they are setting their patients up for failure, and we see it time and time again in people posting about their miserable hunger and poor losses.

              For what it’s worth, I am strict on protocol, but I mix lettuce and cucumber for a salad and then add a protein. Lettuce and spinach are the only thing I mix with another vegetable.

              Yes it is VERY common to have drastically different rounds. No round is ever the same — it’s very rare that people react the same with each round. I lost 28 pounds in 30 days on my first round. The second round, I was so frustrated because my dose was not the same, I reacted differently to different foods, and it took me a lot longer to get into a rythym. Each round you do, you have to go into it like a Newby, not expecting that you know anything. Religiously reading Pounds & Inches and making sure you follow the rules just as Dr S. outlines them.


              • #8
                I showed her lots of information posted on here, and other articles from this site last night. Showed her your words and encouragement, and I'm happy to say that she didn't throw in the towel last night. I seriously thought she was done. It was a rough food day, I don't think she ate her full calories she was so upset about the slow progress, but who knows why but she was down a little bit this morning - not as much as she would like, but at least the scale tipped down to give her a mental break from her slow progress. She still did inject this morning, 150IU - I couldn't talk her out of it. BUT, at least like now she feels like there's a purpose and reason behind what's going on, and she's got a little more hope.

                For mixing veggies - it is typically exactly as you said: lettuce or spinach mixed with tomatoes or cucumbers - Although I just found a chicken cacciatore recipe that's unbelievable, but it mixes tomatoes/onions. Hopefully that's OK because it was great for dinner, and she said she could eat it every day!


                • #9
                  That is so encouraging!! Please keep us updated — we can all relate to the frustration of not seeing the reward of all this effort. Keep encouraging her, she’ll need every bit of that!!!

                  Mixing tomatoes and onions is common, and most people consider onion to be a “seasoning.” If she is still losing with that combo, I’d say she’s safe! If she starts to experience stalls, or is retaining lots of water, maybe let her know a few days of strict protocol (not even mixing lettuce and cucumber, or onion and tomato) might give her a good nudge in the right direction.

                  She’s doing great!!! 23 injections is the minimum length of time to stop the HCG. When stopping before 23 injections, it’s very likely that any weight released will be put back on. It’s hard to keep going when you aren’t seeing results on the scale, but inches lost are VERY encouraging too. Measuring weekly could be a great thing for her! I lost 9 pounds my first week of this current round, and only 3 the second week. But the inches lost in week 2 for me were farrrrr greater than in week 1! This protocol is unlike any diet, it’s hormone therapy. That’s why following the rules is so crucial, and she is doing GREAT!


                  • #10
                    I agree with others that her dose is too high. I fell for the online providers' instructions of 200iu as well, but was hungry as hell. Skipped a day, lost 1.8 lbs. then lowered my dose to 125iu. Tried upping it to 150iu, but found that 125iu is perfect for me.

                    Does she keep an HCG food diary, logging her daily meals and weight loss? Doing so has helped me keep track of what foods cause me to stall and what foods help me lose more. There are several P2 approved foods that cause my weight loss to stall and slow down. Others, especially fish and grapefruit, really shed pounds for me. I would have never recognized this if I had not kept written record of my food and weight loss for at least a couple of weeks for analysis.


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lovelyladyhcg View Post
                      I agree with others that her dose is too high. I fell for the online providers' instructions of 200iu as well, but was hungry as hell. Skipped a day, lost 1.8 lbs. then lowered my dose to 125iu. Tried upping it to 150iu, but found that 125iu is perfect for me.

                      Does she keep an HCG food diary, logging her daily meals and weight loss? Doing so has helped me keep track of what foods cause me to stall and what foods help me lose more. There are several P2 approved foods that cause my weight loss to stall and slow down. Others, especially fish and grapefruit, really shed pounds for me. I would have never recognized this if I had not kept written record of my food and weight loss for at least a couple of weeks for analysis.
                      Lovelylady is right. I've keptt a log since my first round just to see which foods cause a reaction in all three phases. I was just looking back at it a few days ago and saw that no matter what week I was in during P2, I always lost at least a pound whenever I had an apple mid morning, lobster tail and a salad for lunch, and onion smothered lean beef for dinner.


                      • #12
                        I am the same!! No matter how I eat tomatoes, they cause me to stall BIG time!! Especially the tomato and onion combo! The only veggies that really work for me in P2 are lettuce, spinach, cucumber, and asparagus. But it works for me, and with the right dose, these veggies are enough and don’t leave me craving other things! It’s seriously all about the dose!


                        • #13
                          Are tomatoes a common stall food, or is it super subjective by person? Today is day 3 on her lower dose, and she was down slightly the past 2 days, but just slightly. She is eating more tomatoes time than last (because we found that really good chicken dish), but maybe the dosage is the over-riding factor?


                          • #14
                            Tomatoes are a fairly common stall food, yes. Sometimes its a combination: tomatoes and beef, tomatoes and cabbage (for mixers or those who treat tomatoes as an alternate fruit). Shrimp is another one.
                            At goal since 2015. \(ᵔᴥᵔ)/ Total HCG loss: 77# [5'5" 210-133] Original Protocol by Dr. Simeons
                            Please note: Any guidance I offer is based on the OP. ~ maintenance strategies

                            My recent HCG round was with DietDoc. Our site owner has generously arranged for me to earn a small fee if you use my DietDoc link to order your supplies. (All HDI site discounts and coupons apply.) A full review of my experience and how the round progressed: my Diet Doc review.

                            Medical Disclaimer: My statements are not intended to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition.


                            • #15
                              Now my wife is completely confused with the dosing part. She finally got back in touch with NuImage yesterday (It took FOREVER because their email system keeps flagging her gmail account as spam - ugh). They are a flip/flop of much of the advice here. They are FAR more concerned with diet than they are about dosage. They seem to claim that the 200IU is exactly right for everyone, and the diet is more the issue. In fact, the person went on to say that in the 8 years they've worked at NuImage, they can count on one hand the number of times they actually recommended someone should change dosage. On this site, it sounds like almost EVERYONE should not be at 200IU, and the dosage is more important than food. She's on day 17 today, and only lost 9 lbs. By day 17 last round, she had lost almost 14 pounds. Needless to say, the nerves and discouragement are still there - scales not moving like she wants, conflicting recommendations, sick of eating rabbit food . The only consistent message is to cut down on tomatoes. After her lunch today (which was already packed before she got the most recent email), no tomatoes this weekend. She just picked up some Bragg's Aminos yesterday, so that should open up some more recipe options now. The food hasn't been palatable to her, so she's also struggling to reach 500 calories the past few days (another potential problem).

                              I know I mentioned it above, but has anyone else experienced problems emailing NuImage? EVERY email over the past 3 days gets bounced back because their server thinks it's spam. It's a regular gmail account, and one where she's traded emails with NuImage before. This CERTAINLY isn't helping her frustration - not being able to communicate effectively with the place she ordered, and has "claimed" to "be there" with supporting her questions....

                              Any thoughts?


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